6.5x55 vs 6.5x55SE vs 6.5x55SKAN

The 6.5X55mm 'Mauser' / SE / SKAN situation is pretty complex historically, and probably only a handful of people in Scandinavia know all of the detail and nuances.

First, max pressure-wise, there are only two categories, and that only applies to Europe / CIP. 6.5X55mm SE is the current standard CIP cartridge and rifle proofing one. That is, in the absence of any other factor this is the European cartridge. Its MAP is 3,800 bar / 55,114 psi.

However, as that's excessive for some historic rifles, lower pressure standards are adopted by some European ammunition manufacturers for some of their products, geared to around 45,000 psi or maybe a bit less. In effect, although this is the original version so to speak, it's now no longer the standard, definition and standards-wise, rather a 'shadow version'. In fact, c.45,000 psi is too high for some historic rifle models I can think of and if I were loading for them, it'd be to considerably lower peak pressures. Pressures and hence loadings aside, there is no difference in cartridge or chamber dimensions.

In the US, SAAMI doesn't do dual-standards after bad experiences in the past with other cartridges where users failed to read warnings on ammunition cartons to only use their contents in modern weapons in good condition, or specifically not for named firearms. SAAMI rates the 6.5X55 at 46,000 CUP MAP, but if some of the US factory deer loads I've chronographed are anything to go by, I'd say the ammunition factories load them substantially below that level.

Then we get to the complicated bit - SKAN. First, it's an SE pressure-wise, so no difference at all in loads. It's all about standardising chamber and case dimensions. The big prone centrefire international rifle discipline across Scandinavia is an internal regional one based originally on 6.5X55 Service Rifle. When prone rifle shooting as overseen by ICFRA moved from Service Rifle to Target Rifle in the 1960s, most countries such as the UK simply dropped their old competitions and equipment and moved to 7.62 and the new single-shot rifle regs even if the first rifles were mostly rebarrelled Enfiled No.4s with cut-down stocks, or military Mauser 98 action-based. Scandinavia adopted those, but also stuck to their own version using originally service rifles with allowed improvements including match sights.

Then a problem arose. In these Scandi international comps, the host issues ammunition to all parties including the visitors. It turned out that when the 6.5X55 was originally and jointly developed by Norway and Sweden in the late 1880s/early 90s, that although a single set of 'toleranced' chamber and cartridge drawings were approved and issued to all parties, the various countries' armouries interpreted the tolerances differently. This led to situations where 'say' Norwegian manufactured ammo was 'tight' in a minimum headspace Danish or Swedish chamber, and in the reverse situation Norwegian competitors were issued ammunition with too much shoulder clearance in Swedish or Danish hosted events. Functional chambering problems with some batches of ammo at tolerance limits aside, it was claimed that some combinations gave the home team a competitive edge.

With the discipline remaining popular and desires to make it even more so, the participants got together sometime last century (1980s?) and decided to sort this issue out whilst also dealing with the matter of original rifle actions being worn out and nothing like state of the art in various things like lock-time. Rather than adopt the GB NRA TR situation of where every competitor decides on his or her choice from various competing designs that were being constantly improved (and tended to become more expensive in real terms at the same time) once adaptation of the former service models went out of fashion, the Scandis adopted a single design by Sauer, the STR, that everybody used. Switch barrel too, to allow quick change to 308 for those comps with non-Scandi countries and/or disciplines where only 223/308 can be shot, also to allow various standard barrel lengths to be available and swappable for different uses. At the same time, the chamber / cartridge discrepancies were sorted with a new and slightly different standard spec for the Scandinavian standard rifle, ie the 6.5X55mm SKAN. It is slightly different from SE. Most times there are no issues in ammo interchangeability with commercial sporting 6.5X55mm 'Swedish Mauser' ammo, but IIRC the SKAN chamber is marginally shorter from bolt face to shoulder datum line, so maximum tolerance cases from non-SKAN spec sources may not always chamber in the Sauer competition rifle.

The whole set up has worked very well AFAIK. The STR on its home turf is much cheaper than a state of the art TR rifle here and is much more flexible too allowing more than just slowfire single-shot matches in a single discipline. When a barrel is shot-out, replacement is a DIY task buying off the shelf chambered barrels at a fraction of the cost of machining, chambering, headspacing, and fitting stainless barrel blanks as is done elsewhere. Everybody uses the same model of rifle and shoots the ammo supplied in big matches, although I'm sure handloading is done by many in club matches where 'local' rules allow.
 
The 6.5X55mm 'Mauser' / SE / SKAN situation is pretty complex historically, and probably only a handful of people in Scandinavia know all of the detail and nuances.

First, max pressure-wise, there are only two categories, and that only applies to Europe / CIP. 6.5X55mm SE is the current standard CIP cartridge and rifle proofing one. That is, in the absence of any other factor this is the European cartridge. Its MAP is 3,800 bar / 55,114 psi.

However, as that's excessive for some historic rifles, lower pressure standards are adopted by some European ammunition manufacturers for some of their products, geared to around 45,000 psi or maybe a bit less. In effect, although this is the original version so to speak, it's now no longer the standard, definition and standards-wise, rather a 'shadow version'. In fact, c.45,000 psi is too high for some historic rifle models I can think of and if I were loading for them, it'd be to considerably lower peak pressures. Pressures and hence loadings aside, there is no difference in cartridge or chamber dimensions.

In the US, SAAMI doesn't do dual-standards after bad experiences in the past with other cartridges where users failed to read warnings on ammunition cartons to only use their contents in modern weapons in good condition, or specifically not for named firearms. SAAMI rates the 6.5X55 at 46,000 CUP MAP, but if some of the US factory deer loads I've chronographed are anything to go by, I'd say the ammunition factories load them substantially below that level.

Then we get to the complicated bit - SKAN. First, it's an SE pressure-wise, so no difference at all in loads. It's all about standardising chamber and case dimensions. The big prone centrefire international rifle discipline across Scandinavia is an internal regional one based originally on 6.5X55 Service Rifle. When prone rifle shooting as overseen by ICFRA moved from Service Rifle to Target Rifle in the 1960s, most countries such as the UK simply dropped their old competitions and equipment and moved to 7.62 and the new single-shot rifle regs even if the first rifles were mostly rebarrelled Enfiled No.4s with cut-down stocks, or military Mauser 98 action-based. Scandinavia adopted those, but also stuck to their own version using originally service rifles with allowed improvements including match sights.

Then a problem arose. In these Scandi international comps, the host issues ammunition to all parties including the visitors. It turned out that when the 6.5X55 was originally and jointly developed by Norway and Sweden in the late 1880s/early 90s, that although a single set of 'toleranced' chamber and cartridge drawings were approved and issued to all parties, the various countries' armouries interpreted the tolerances differently. This led to situations where 'say' Norwegian manufactured ammo was 'tight' in a minimum headspace Danish or Swedish chamber, and in the reverse situation Norwegian competitors were issued ammunition with too much shoulder clearance in Swedish or Danish hosted events. Functional chambering problems with some batches of ammo at tolerance limits aside, it was claimed that some combinations gave the home team a competitive edge.

With the discipline remaining popular and desires to make it even more so, the participants got together sometime last century (1980s?) and decided to sort this issue out whilst also dealing with the matter of original rifle actions being worn out and nothing like state of the art in various things like lock-time. Rather than adopt the GB NRA TR situation of where every competitor decides on his or her choice from various competing designs that were being constantly improved (and tended to become more expensive in real terms at the same time) once adaptation of the former service models went out of fashion, the Scandis adopted a single design by Sauer, the STR, that everybody used. Switch barrel too, to allow quick change to 308 for those comps with non-Scandi countries and/or disciplines where only 223/308 can be shot, also to allow various standard barrel lengths to be available and swappable for different uses. At the same time, the chamber / cartridge discrepancies were sorted with a new and slightly different standard spec for the Scandinavian standard rifle, ie the 6.5X55mm SKAN. It is slightly different from SE. Most times there are no issues in ammo interchangeability with commercial sporting 6.5X55mm 'Swedish Mauser' ammo, but IIRC the SKAN chamber is marginally shorter from bolt face to shoulder datum line, so maximum tolerance cases from non-SKAN spec sources may not always chamber in the Sauer competition rifle.

The whole set up has worked very well AFAIK. The STR on its home turf is much cheaper than a state of the art TR rifle here and is much more flexible too allowing more than just slowfire single-shot matches in a single discipline. When a barrel is shot-out, replacement is a DIY task buying off the shelf chambered barrels at a fraction of the cost of machining, chambering, headspacing, and fitting stainless barrel blanks as is done elsewhere. Everybody uses the same model of rifle and shoots the ammo supplied in big matches, although I'm sure handloading is done by many in club matches where 'local' rules allow.
Bravo Laurie. Nailed it 👌
 
And this is why i've been a tad confused as to why the SKAN is slower yet is meant to be a hotter round.
Regardless i've loaded up Nielsen Sonic Hunter in my 6.5x55(SE?SKAN?) R93 barrel using 49.5grains of N160 and am getting 2850fps and decent groups so am more than happy with the first results.
View attachment 205675View attachment 205676
Would you mind sharing the rest of your load pls, brass, primer length etc?
Reason for asking is n160 didn't group well for me.
 
If a 6.5x55 rifle gets proofed in Europe I presume there is only one pressure it will be tested at and that is CIP rating. What happens to old Betsy that should be run at the lower pressure level? Will it get a CIP approval as 6.5x55 with lower pressure test cartridges or do they just fire CIP proof loads and hope for the best?? Bit of a mess isn't it? How does one really know which rifle can take which pressure? Pick up a lovely old 6.5x55 second hand in a shop and stick in the Euro Norma ammo and hope for the best? Another point that seems quite common is the fact that many re-loaders are convinced the 6.5x55 pressure rating is way to low for safety reasons. They say one can load to much higher pressures in modern rifles however do not state what pressures this is based on... some might think the 3800bar CIP rating is the lower side not the SAAMI rating. Others think the CIP pressure is a farce and one can happily load to 6.5CM pressure levels.
Several reasons I prefer more modern cartridges in combination with modern rifles unless you really know what you are doing.
edi
 
Soooo. Just been looking back over Viht Reloading Guides particularly at N140 and N160 with 120gns bullets., Yes I know, but no shooting here on a Sunday!
In 2004 the guide (Edition 1?) listed only Swedish Mauser loads of N140 @ 38.1/40.5gns and N160 @ 45.8/50.7gns. This was repeated in their 2008 Edition 6 guide and again no mention of SE/SKAN. Somewhere between then and Edition 11 (my next guide) but undated Viht repeated the same Swedish Mauser loads but also added an additional page for SE/SKAN with a warning:-
“This reloading data is intended to use (sic) at (sic) modern rifles in good condition such as Sauer, Sako or Blaser chambered to 6.5x55SKAN or 6.5x55SE. The inference being that loads in it were not to be used for the SM - reportedly because the older SM military actions were not as strong as the modern SE/SKAN.
The loads given for said 120gns bullet in the new SE/SKAN were N140 @ 33.6/40 gns and N160 @ 43.8/47.4gns. You will notice that the N140 range max is 0.5 gns lighter so pretty close but the N160 range max is a full 3.3gns lighter than that for the SM!
The current 2021 Viht web-based guide repeats the same warning but again gives the same 120 gns data for each with the SM N160 max still a full 3.3 grains heavier than the modern counterpart. I have been reloading the SE for quite a few years now with a modest 45gns of N160 and always used the SE/SKAN data for my favourite 120gns Sierra Prohunters but I am puzzled by this obvious contradiction plus of course the fact that my pet load is actually lower than the SM starting figure of 45.8 gns! To be clear - I am thoroughly delighted with my pet load of N160, it shoots better than I can and with a good crimp has no pressure or soot problems so I will not be changing it.
Any thoughts chaps?
🦊🦊
 
Viht loads have changed considerably in some cases over the years, mostly becoming heavier than in the past - but not always. Viht long implied N160 was a magnum rifle powder, but it's not. In maximum charges and pressures, it's much closer to the 4350s than the 4831s as shown in most burning rate charts. It may be that the grade has changed a bit over time, or maybe Viht is becoming a bit more practical / realistic and loads have been reduced accordingly. Another change may be in testing methods. Many companies used a real rifle in unworn condition at one time; today it's SAAMI / CIP spec pressure barrels, and an as-spec chamber and land / groove diameters used in the ballistics lab are often very different indeed from those out in the field and on the ranges. I'm pretty sure that most M1894/96/1938 Swedish military rifles have freebores WAY longer than the CIP SE chamber spec even in unissued form and therefore generate lower pressures than the pressure gun in the lab. Whether that applies to commercial sporting rifles too ......... ??

Here's an interesting quote from an outfit that investigated the (allegedly unsafe) use of 5.56X45mm NATO ammunition in the standard short-freebore 223 Rem chamber in factory rifles. (A proper ballistic investigation using strain gauges etc to plot pressure curves, none of your looking at primer condition on fired cartridges.)

".223 Remington ammunition is pressure tested in what is called a “SAAMI Minimum Spec” chamber – that is, a “worst case scenario” chamber in this regard, made to the smallest dimensions, which would result in the highest pressures with any given ammunition. In reality, the likelihood of encountering such a chamber outside a testing lab is incredibly small. Many .223 Remington chambers will see maximum chamber pressures which are several thousand pounds per square inch (PSI) lower than those seen in SAAMI test barrels."

I suspect the same comment would apply equally well to 6.5X55mm chambers on non-custom rifles.
 
Ahah!
What you are seeing is the ongoing confusion of the.6.5x55 Swede/SKAN/SE and the gradual reduction of powder charges over the years by probably all the powder manufacturers, no doubt caused by the litigious environment we (especially our friends across the pond inhabit) to the point that many of the once moderate loads on the most recent web page are now “do not exceed”. I have never been a “big bang” theorist rather my advice is start low as per the website and work up in small .3 gns increments with the initial seating depth at calibre length (.264”) until you get pressure signs or better still find a load recipe you are happy with then perhaps tinker with seating depth. For me and I emphasise yours may be different, with my modern 6.5x55 SE, a moderate 45gns of N160 and a 120gns Prohunter or 130gns TMK with a firm crimp are both incredibly accurate and will drop everything in short order with no fouling/soot etc. The absolute 6.5x55 bonus is that with this load I can see the bullet strike my quarry unlike heavier loads/calibres where recoil throws you off.
Remember to take care but do enjoy the experience.
🦊🦊
That is exactly the same load I arrived at with my Sauer 202 Outback in 6.5x55.
 
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