Rifle Ideas

[Rudolphus Cervus]

Hello all,

I'm new to this site having signed up yesterday (after "lurking" and reading for a while). In my posts on the "Introductions" part of the site, I was asked about the rifles I was looking to buy with my newly-issued FAC - I've stalked before but had decided to take the plunge and get my own FAC/rifles etc to take it further & learn about the fieldcraft involved... If any of you have any thoughts or suggestions, I'd love to hear - as much of things to avoid as things to go for! Any guidance as to places that will let you do a "test drive" on a gun before buying would help too - I live in central London so obviously gun shops round here aren't able to do so!

Below are the relevant paragraphs from the Introductions thread...

I said....
For deer I went for .243 and .308, both with mods.

I’ve also got slots for .303 and .22LR though both with the intention of shooting targets. The .303 for some vintage open sights stuff (eg SMLE but you can even get Martini Henry in that); the .22LR for some gallery rifle, turning targets etc.

Can use .303 for deer as well but thought I’d get modern .243/.308 for that.
Still a major quandary as to what to get for deer though. I’ve been recommended everything from Blaser R8 to CZ and all points between!


bfltd0 replied...
Take your time to have a look at the different makes/models around the place. Get something that you are confident in, rather than something that just looks good or is trendy. Try and get hands on before you buy, either at an RFD or if F2F, see if the seller (hopefully a stalker) will be able to meet up with you and let you fire the rifle first.

My own deer/vermin rifles are Steyr Scouts (.308, .243, .223) - a minority sport these days but they are reliable, accurate and robust. No doubt I could replace them with something trendier or in a more sought-after/modern calibre, but I know what they are capable of doing and they do it well.


To which I replied...
I know what I want for the .22LR and .303, it's the deer ones - .243 and .308 - that I'm faffing with.

Being in London and living in a flat means storage space for a gun cabinet is at a premium, hence the modular aspects of the likes of Blaser R8 or Sauer 404 appeal as they mean I'm effectively keeping one "rifle" plus one "small bit of metal tube" sitting next to it (if you excuse the oversimplification). I already have this with one of my shotguns which has a spare barrel (one is 30", good for high pheasant, the other 25", good for lower flying partridge or grouse).

On the other hand, I know R8 is a bit "trendy" at the moment and that it's not the cheapest bit of kit compared to numerous other makes that will lob a bit of lead (oops - copper) at a deer pretty much just as well.

I'm inclined towards the gun-for-life approach as well, given that I'm now working and earning whereas when I retire (perhaps 10 years' time) my income will drop significantly. Though on the other hand, I'm also wary of the "all the gear but no idea" look!

 

[TH4]

Shoot a few different rifles and the one that feels good and you can shoot well with is the best one to buy

 

[Stumpy2]

A new, quality rifle will last your lifetime, even if you shoot a lot, it can be rebarrelled. From the circumstances you describe I would get the Blaser in 308 (you’ve clearly been looking at them and liking them, and can add the second caliber later, though if it’s just for deer, stick with 308)

Scoped with a good quality variable mag scope it’ll do everything you want it to.

Good luck

 

[Woodsmoke]

First thing for me would be to set your budget, then decide on new or secondhand, wood and blue, or synthetic. Then you can start narrowing your choices down some more

 

[Red Dragon 2]

As always said, be prepared to spend on the glass, depending on your uses and times of day, can be Nikko Stirling or Zeiss.

 

[Cranborne]

It would be worth speaking to Steve Beatty at Ivythorn Sporting in Somerset. He is a rifle specialist with plenty of stock across all price ranges. He is honest about the condition of his second hand rifles, and also has on site range where you can try before buying.

 

[Brno2e]

I cut my teeth on a Savage 110. T8 mod and leupold glass. It cost very little and left me with a lot of spare cash to buy ammunition.
It was an amazing outfit that paved the way on to stalking.
Dont discard a cheap gun as there are some cracking rifles out there
Buy one and shoot it lots and build some experience and when you are ready scratch your itch.

 

[enfieldspares]

I loathe it but in truth you won't go far wrong for the UK with the .308 Winchester. And being a ".30" it is also future proofed as much as possible against any ban on non-lead projectiles. I've never owned a .308 Winchester but I know enough about this game to recognise its great merits.

I can't make constructive comment any further as I also have never owned a rifle fitted for a moderator save my old Unique X-51bis in .22LR. But again I acknowledge their benefits. As to barrel length I personally as I shoot unmoderated rifle won't have anything under twenty-four inches.

 

[tusker]

Regarding your deer rifles. The only thing that separates the expensive rifles and the entry level or non fashionable rifles is marketing. i have been hunting, shooting, stalking call it what you want for 40 years and I can tell you now unless you are shooting 100 deer a year or more you will have no problem with any new rifle off the shelf. There are also hundreds of , for eg, Parker Hales second hand out there that will shoot far better than you can. so basically dont think that a 2k rifle will make you a better shot and remember simplicity is genius. I like the Mauser action rifles but the fashion queens shun them, they are bomb proof (2 world wars proved that) . Try many and buy what fits then practice.
I bought a PH 270 10 years ago for £60 with pitted rifling and it has taken game from Scotland to Africa, my nephew has it now and is still going strong.
Good luck, dont spend so much money that you cant go stalking.
Tusker

 

[jb7x57]

A 6.5 mm will do all jobs the 243 and 308 will do

 

[HandB]

I own two .308s, a 7x57 and a .222. If you are only using factory ammo a .308 is perfect. If you will be reloading a 7x57 will give you similar power with less recoil, less drop and less wind drift.

 

[Malxwal]

I was told, for the reasons of space you mention, and for discrete storage in vehicles, the Blasers and other "takedowns" are very popular with shooters who live/work in the big inner cities. I have next to no experience of them, but if you have the budget, and genuinely consider the space to be a major factor, I dont think you'd go wrong with a Blaser. They are expensive, but they're also quality, and the straight pull action makes for a compact rifle when you're actually out stalking.

 

[NullMac]

Some random thoughts.

Not sure what your quarry is, if you are after Boar then you will need something akin to a 308.

If not however I would tend to agree with jb7x57 above, you should maybe look at the 6.5 Creedmoor, because copper is a reality and there are limited bullet options in 243. Now, it may well sort itself out, but not sure I would be taking the risk so I would be looking at a 6.5 as a minimum at the moment. If you take that view, and don't need 180gr bullets for Boar, then there isn't a big enough difference between 6.5CM and 308 in hunting terms to get 2 rifles. As always in this game it depends what you are planning on shooting. Would suggest looking at 120-130gr loads in a 6.5.

As for one rifle for life, that's my approach as well. So far I have owned 6 rifles for life. Its a nice theory, but gunitis gets us all. Buy something that people will want.

Blaser is excellent and will shoot but is a lot of money for something that is going to be dragged through a puddle. At the other end of the scale Tikka also shoots and will sell. Bergara are frankly surprisingly good with some guns at disposable prices. Personally I am less convinced about a lot of the stuff in the middle (despite the fact I have bought a lot of it in the past!) as it costs more but suspect they don't perform as well as the Tikka but don't get close to the Blaser. A lot of rifles now are resting on their previous reputations that cost engineering has undermined.

A suggestion rather than a load of baloney - buy a Tikka in 65CM with a semi weight barrel (Tikka CTR or similar) drop it into a GRS Bifrost stock to give you excellent gun fit and you will be ahead of the crowd.

Your milage may vary...

 

[DRWC]

Having done (and now mercifully escaped) a London flat, the Blaser thing might work for you. I always felt very self conscious in the walk from my front door, across the road and maybe round the corner to wherever my car was parked carrying what was obviously a firearm. I’ve never owned a Blaser but if it can be dismantled and partially disguised, getting it in and out of the car will be less worrisome.

 

[User00040]

A 6.5 mm will do all jobs the 243 and 308 will do

But a 7mm will do it better.

 

[User00040]

I was told, for the reasons of space you mention, and for discrete storage in vehicles, the Blasers and other "takedowns" are very popular with shooters who live/work in the big inner cities. I have next to no experience of them, but if you have the budget, and genuinely consider the space to be a major factor, I dont think you'd go wrong with a Blaser. They are expensive, but they're also quality, and the straight pull action makes for a compact rifle when you're actually out stalking.

Recommending and complementing Blaser... I think we won't be talking again!

 

[Malxwal]

Recommending and complementing Blaser... I think we won't be talking again!

I can be objective, occasionally...

 

[muddy42]

I am surprised you managed to get slots for 243, 308, 303 and 22 on your first certificate. My advice, if you are short of space would be to buy one rifle and use it a lot. Familiarly gives you a quick mounting style and breads accuracy. A 308 with a decent variable scope can tackle any species or shooting range in the UK with lead or non-lead bullets.

243 is an amazing if you are only after the smaller deer and vermin, but 308 will also do that fine.
From what I know of 303s, they are massive rifles that will take up a lot of space.
I find 22LR has limited application for game or target shooting - if you want to practice, you might as well get an air rifle (and it doesn't need to live in the cabinet the whole time).

Just my advice, coming from a hypocrite that owns 243, 308 and 22LR and used to live in central London!! Zeroing and load development from central london is a pain. I've tried to join clubs before, but the rules and regs and ammo restrictions are a pain. If you know a landowner nearby you're as well to ask them if you can zero. A few places where I go stalking don't mind if you turn up in the afternoon before an evening stalk to zero. Good luck and don't let anyone put you off butchering a deer in central London - it is perfectly possible!

 

[Twodogs]

I am surprised you managed to get slots for 243, 308, 303 and 22 on your first certificate. My advice, if you are short of space would be to buy one rifle and use it a lot. Familiarly gives you a quick mounting style and breads accuracy. A 308 with a decent variable scope can tackle any species or shooting range in the UK with lead or non-lead bullets.

243 is an amazing if you are only after the smaller deer and vermin, but 308 will also do that fine.
From what I know of 303s, they are massive rifles that will take up a lot of space.
I find 22LR has limited application for game or target shooting - if you want to practice, you might as well get an air rifle (and it doesn't need to live in the cabinet the whole time).

Just my advice, coming from a hypocrite that owns 243, 308 and 22LR and used to live in central London!! Zeroing and load development from central london is a pain. I've tried to join clubs before, but the rules and regs and ammo restrictions are a pain. If you know a landowner nearby you're as well to ask them if you can zero. A few places where I go stalking don't mind if you turn up in the afternoon before an evening stalk to zero. Good luck and don't let anyone put you off butchering a deer in central London - it is perfectly possible!

.303's massive rifles that take up a lot of space?
Have to disagree here, regarding Lee Enfields anyway, possibly longer if you have another shorter barrelled rifle, most likely narrower and generally will be less bulky because you are less likely to have optics and/or moderators.
If you look towards the Parker Hale custom Enfields they are even shorter, smaller and lighter.

 

[Apthorpe]

While I can see the appeal of a take-down or Blaser style rifle, I can't quite see the point if you're going to have a full length .303 and presumably .22. surely the gun cupboard will need to be able to fit them. Otherwise, I'd certainly give a lot of consideration to second-hand rifles. If you prefer wood and blued rifles, then there are a lot of high quality examples available for relatively little. The current fashion for anything made of plastic has suppressed the market for traditional rifles to your advantage. I bought second-hand Sako and a Heym last year for £6-700 each - the latter including a German scope. Both in good condition, accurate and slightly better than average-looking. I doubt many rifles in quite good brands get much use.

The Berkshire shooting school or whatever it's name is (nr. Yattendon) has a beautiful, new Heym .243 for sale which I have inspected. I'd be seriously tempted by that as a forever rifle. They also have a .308 too, slightly less pretty though.