AT Tyres

[Pkiernan]

My experience is that Yokahoma Geolanders ATs are excellent all rounder off roaders.

 

[243 fallow]

I’ve got a set of falken all terrains on me ranger, can’t fault them, low price relatively quiet and in and of the woods most day’s,

 

[carbon]

I think it probably depends on your precise use and what you are comparing them to - I only do maybe 20 - 30 miles per week off the road on average (well in non-COVID years) and because I'm often in very remote places where there is no one to give me a tow I have to be careful and as a result I'm not in a position to risk sinking down to the axles. The upshot of this might be that my requirements are much less severe than what others might expect as I will mostly be on forestry or croft tracks, where I am I don't often drive on fields as the fields are peat bog and the Argo is the only thing that is useful on them. Compared to the Yokos, that I had previously, the BFGs excelled at nothing I needed them to do and were worse in almost every aspect of use so I can see no reason to consider them again now I'm coming up for replacement. So I guess the key factors in this are my use of the tyres, and previous tyres that I'm comparing them to, and my expectations of how I expect a modern AT type tyre to perform. On that basis there probably isn't a single person who will come to the same conclusion as I will.

However, based on the info and recommendations in this thread I'm going to talk to a man and see which of the tyres mentioned might be available as availability seems to be a real problem just now. If it turns out that choice is nearly zero then the BFGs might stay for another few months to see if things improve. However I will certainly be taking a look at Coopers as they seem very popular and it may even be that the Yokos might get a look in once again. Thank you to everyone for the suggestions. I would report back on what I get but as with most things there is no point running tyres for a day and giving an opinion, you really need to run them for their life to get a full idea of how they perform.

What vehicle do you drive? Pardon if I missed that somewhere.

 

[caorach]

What vehicle do you drive? Pardon if I missed that somewhere.

It is a Mitsubishi L200, I think maybe they were called Tritons or something in other markets.

 

[carbon]

It is a Mitsubishi L200, I think maybe they were called Tritons or something in other markets.

Ok, about 4230 lbs (1920 kg) or thereabouts? If so, that's approaching the weight of my 4runner (4,750 lbs). I assume you have 4x4 and maybe the lockable rear diff and add some weight in the bed, especially with snow?

Do you happen to know the load ratings of your yoko's and your BFG KO2 tires?

Here's a wild guess on what's happening: the load rating on your BFG's might be much too high for your truck. Worst case would be you used to have a P245/65/R17 load SL Yoko and switched to a LT245/65/R17 load E KO2. Thirty-five lbs a tire vs a fifty lbs one. Not-many-plys (4?) vs a 10 ply tire. Passenger vehicle tires (P-metric) vs Light Truck tires (LT).

If this is the case, your rig will indeed feel loads more sluggish and ride like a bucket of bolts. P-metric tires also tend to ride better in the rain.

Also, too high a tire pressure, especially for a light-ish truck (pumping up a load E to max pressure!), will exacerbate poor on/off-road qualities even further.

If this is not the case, then I'm whistling in the dark.


Details below for the curious:

If you currently have a LT245/65/R17 KO2, in that size they only come in load rating D (8 ply) or E (10 ply) according to BFG's site. Both D or E are much too stiff for your truck (and too stiff for my 500 lbs heavier truck as well). I researched this factor a lot before buying tires, and found out my truck should run a LT265/70R17 load C (6 ply) tire at the most, unless one is really, really concerned with sharp Arizona-type rocks.

Higher load rated tires usually weigh more. In the KO2's LT245/65/R17's case the range is 45-50lbs for the D & E load. Heavier tires make the vehicle seem sluggish and ride rougher.

However, the Yoko Geolandar A/T G015 at that same size either comes in load SL (which is a 'passenger vehicle' aka P-metric load) at 35-ish lbs or in Light Truck load E up to 47 lbs.

 

[carbon]

What got me thinking about this is re-reading your description of the BFG's feeling like there was a "camber on the track." Perhaps differing expectations were not the culprit, after all?

Maybe you know all about tire load ratings, maybe I guessed wrong on the tire sizes or Yoko models. But the general advice still stands.

Hopefully you don't take any of this wrong; just trying to be of help. If this is not useful for you @caorach, then perhaps it'll help someone down the road (sorry!).

 

[Cloudhopper]

What got me thinking about this is re-reading your description of the BFG's feeling like there was a "camber on the track." Perhaps differing expectations were not the culprit, after all?

Maybe you know all about tire load ratings, maybe I guessed wrong on the tire sizes or Yoko models. But the general advice still stands.

Hopefully you don't take any of this wrong; just trying to be of help. If this is not useful for you @caorach, then perhaps it'll help someone down the road (sorry!).

I'm not too switched on to this and I've just bought a set of rims for the Hilux fitted with BFG KO2 tyres for off-road use. I noticed they were appreciably heavier than the standard rims fitted with Bridgestone Dueler H/T tyre. After reading your post I'll keep the pressures on the low side.
CH

 

[Mungo]

Ok, about 4230 lbs (1920 kg) or thereabouts? If so, that's approaching the weight of my 4runner (4,750 lbs). I assume you have 4x4 and maybe the lockable rear diff and add some weight in the bed, especially with snow?

Do you happen to know the load ratings of your yoko's and your BFG KO2 tires?

Here's a wild guess on what's happening: the load rating on your BFG's might be much too high for your truck. Worst case would be you used to have a P245/65/R17 load SL Yoko and switched to a LT245/65/R17 load E KO2. Thirty-five lbs a tire vs a fifty lbs one. Not-many-plys (4?) vs a 10 ply tire. Passenger vehicle tires (P-metric) vs Light Truck tires (LT).

If this is the case, your rig will indeed feel loads more sluggish and ride like a bucket of bolts. P-metric tires also tend to ride better in the rain.

Also, too high a tire pressure, especially for a light-ish truck (pumping up a load E to max pressure!), will exacerbate poor on/off-road qualities even further.

If this is not the case, then I'm whistling in the dark.


Details below for the curious:

If you currently have a LT245/65/R17 KO2, in that size they only come in load rating D (8 ply) or E (10 ply) according to BFG's site. Both D or E are much too stiff for your truck (and too stiff for my 500 lbs heavier truck as well). I researched this factor a lot before buying tires, and found out my truck should run a LT265/70R17 load C (6 ply) tire at the most, unless one is really, really concerned with sharp Arizona-type rocks.

Higher load rated tires usually weigh more. In the KO2's LT245/65/R17's case the range is 45-50lbs for the D & E load. Heavier tires make the vehicle seem sluggish and ride rougher.

However, the Yoko Geolandar A/T G015 at that same size either comes in load SL (which is a 'passenger vehicle' aka P-metric load) at 35-ish lbs or in Light Truck load E up to 47 lbs.

This is one of the most useful posts I’ve ever seen on this site.

Thank you.

 

[w0rks2much]

I'm looking to replace my BFGs, I really, really don't want to see BFGs ever again - they might be wonderful in the dry areas of the good old USA but they are sod all use on the forestry tracks, croft tracks, and slushy wet snow of the UK.

I wanted to try Pirelli All Terrain Plus tyres as they are getting a really good reputation for having addressed the failures of the BFGs, however they are basically unavailable. On doing some looking around it appears that almost every AT tyre is unavailable and with my "first choice" pretty much off the options I'm looking for suggestions. It is an L200 pickup and came with 245/65/R17 on as standard but 265/70/R17 will fit if necessary.

So, any suggestions for something that might be available and might perform at least reasonably across a wide range of conditions? Usually I would do maybe 20+ miles per week off the road and maybe 10,000 miles per year in total. In the past I ran Yoko Geolander ATS and they were miles better than the BFGs, though perhaps not as robust, so I might go back to them but thought to get opinions before making any decisions.

Avoid the Falken AT tyres, I've had nothing but issues with them. Cant wait to get rid of them and I wouldn't have them again if they were free!

 

[caorach]

Ok, about 4230 lbs (1920 kg) or thereabouts? If so, that's approaching the weight of my 4runner (4,750 lbs). I assume you have 4x4 and maybe the lockable rear diff and add some weight in the bed, especially with snow?

Do you happen to know the load ratings of your yoko's and your BFG KO2 tires?

Here's a wild guess on what's happening: the load rating on your BFG's might be much too high for your truck. Worst case would be you used to have a P245/65/R17 load SL Yoko and switched to a LT245/65/R17 load E KO2. Thirty-five lbs a tire vs a fifty lbs one. Not-many-plys (4?) vs a 10 ply tire. Passenger vehicle tires (P-metric) vs Light Truck tires (LT).

If this is the case, your rig will indeed feel loads more sluggish and ride like a bucket of bolts. P-metric tires also tend to ride better in the rain.

Also, too high a tire pressure, especially for a light-ish truck (pumping up a load E to max pressure!), will exacerbate poor on/off-road qualities even further.

If this is not the case, then I'm whistling in the dark.


Details below for the curious:

If you currently have a LT245/65/R17 KO2, in that size they only come in load rating D (8 ply) or E (10 ply) according to BFG's site. Both D or E are much too stiff for your truck (and too stiff for my 500 lbs heavier truck as well). I researched this factor a lot before buying tires, and found out my truck should run a LT265/70R17 load C (6 ply) tire at the most, unless one is really, really concerned with sharp Arizona-type rocks.

Higher load rated tires usually weigh more. In the KO2's LT245/65/R17's case the range is 45-50lbs for the D & E load. Heavier tires make the vehicle seem sluggish and ride rougher.

However, the Yoko Geolandar A/T G015 at that same size either comes in load SL (which is a 'passenger vehicle' aka P-metric load) at 35-ish lbs or in Light Truck load E up to 47 lbs.

I believe that the tyre I put on is in the right load rating for the car as Mitsubishi fit these tyres out of the factory on some "special" models and while I'm not running one of the specials I am running the same BFGs.

I tried a range of tyre pressures but settled on 33psi, any harder and they bounced about like jack-in-the-box and much softer and there wasn't much in the way of steering on the road. Generally speaking I don't air them down for off road use, mostly because I'm lazy to be honest. I have talked to a few people who run the same tyre on the L200 and through experimentation every one of them has ended up with a pressure around 33psi so I don't think I'm doing anything very wrong with the pressure.

 

[carbon]

33psi sounds reasonable (but see below).

Your description of bouciness suggests a load rating issue. I’ve read it’s ok to go “down” to an SL tire if your rig was OEM with LT tires (but never ok to go the other way around). So, consider that. You could give the dealer or manufacturer a ring to see what was OEM, if you want.

As you say, Mitsubishi might have installed higher load rates tires on some models, but I’d be surprised if they were D or E. It’s possible, I guess. In any case, there would be the same trade-offs…perhaps they did so for a towing model or severe-service model?

In regards to tire pressure, there’s something called a “chalk test”, in which you run some sidewalk chalk on the tires at a given psi and then drive slow and straight (no turning!) in a large parking lot.

Details here: Using The Chalk Method for Determining PSI | Interco Tire

Loads of YouTube vids on it too. Start higher than you think and release air until the chalk wear is even.

In the States we have a little sticker in the doorframe that indicates tire pressure. I’ve read that you throw out those suggestions when you buy an aftermarket tire.

I’m not Mr. Tire for sure, so if you really want to learn more, dip your toes into off-road forums. Toyota & Jeep ones especially (edit: and Land Rover, duh!) as they probably are closer to the weight of UK trucks. Nothing wrong with a Dodge Ram forum or the like, but I don’t believe you lads own those 8000 lbs crew-cab dually-rears pickup behemoths like we have over here.

Those giant truck fellas often seem to jack them up sky-high, slap on some Super Swamper mud tires, stick on a giant US flag (or worse, Confederate!), perhaps add a (dis)tasteful bit o’ Truck Nutz (an actual product!) and roll loudly & so, so proudly to the mall.

Never touching mud, mind you.

 

[Scandially]

Hell YEAH y'all.

 

[carbon]

This is one of the most useful posts I’ve ever seen on this site.

Thank you.

Glad to be of service. This is such a nice and polite forum…many hunting or gun-related forums remind me of grade school.

This one does not!

 

[carbon]

I'm not too switched on to this and I've just bought a set of rims for the Hilux fitted with BFG KO2 tyres for off-road use. I noticed they were appreciably heavier than the standard rims fitted with Bridgestone Dueler H/T tyre. After reading your post I'll keep the pressures on the low side.
CH

If you’ve bought a too high a load-rated tire, there’s not much one can do about it without trade-offs. Lowering tire pressure to get comfortable can create uneven wear and other handling issues.

The only solution seems to be to get lower load rated tires, I’m afraid.

 

[Cloudhopper]

If you’ve bought a too high a load-rated tire, there’s not much one can do about it without trade-offs. Lowering tire pressure to get comfortable can create uneven wear and other handling issues.

The only solution seems to be to get lower load rated tires, I’m afraid.

I'm running them at 32 psi and the ride seems acceptable. I'll stick with them for now and see how it goes. At least I have a good idea what to look for next time around.
CH

 

[carbon]

Hell YEAH y'all.View attachment 216834

Just imagine the smell when it rains…

 

[Mungo]

Glad to be of service. This is such a nice and polite forum…

We’re British - it’s all in the nuance…

 

[Mungo]

33psi sounds reasonable (but see below).

Your description of bouciness suggests a load rating issue. I’ve read it’s ok to go “down” to an SL tire if your rig was OEM with LT tires (but never ok to go the other way around). So, consider that. You could give the dealer or manufacturer a ring to see what was OEM, if you want.

As you say, Mitsubishi might have installed higher load rates tires on some models, but I’d be surprised if they were D or E. It’s possible, I guess. In any case, there would be the same trade-offs…perhaps they did so for a towing model or severe-service model?

In regards to tire pressure, there’s something called a “chalk test”, in which you run some sidewalk chalk on the tires at a given psi and then drive slow and straight (no turning!) in a large parking lot.

Details here: Using The Chalk Method for Determining PSI | Interco Tire

Loads of YouTube vids on it too. Start higher than you think and release air until the chalk wear is even.

In the States we have a little sticker in the doorframe that indicates tire pressure. I’ve read that you throw out those suggestions when you buy an aftermarket tire.

I’m not Mr. Tire for sure, so if you really want to learn more, dip your toes into off-road forums. Toyota & Jeep ones especially (edit: and Land Rover, duh!) as they probably are closer to the weight of UK trucks.

If I’m understanding what you’re saying correctly, you can’t actually get KO2s that are appropriate for something like a Toyota Hilux (around 4600lbs)?

 

[caorach]

33psi sounds reasonable (but see below).

Your description of bouciness suggests a load rating issue. I’ve read it’s ok to go “down” to an SL tire if your rig was OEM with LT tires (but never ok to go the other way around). So, consider that. You could give the dealer or manufacturer a ring to see what was OEM, if you want.

It is possible you are correct as, basically, I know nothing at all about load ratings or the like, I just try to get the hole in the middle the right size. I don't know if it is useful but the data sheet for the tyres I have fitted is here:

https://www.tyrelabelling.eu/EU/2020-740/en/124215_fcs_en.pdf

Mitsubishi released a "tarted up" L200 and they fitted these same tyres. The pickup wasn't designed to do any hard work, it was basically designed to have lots of colourful bits of plastic stuck on it to impress your friends, but it also got these BFGs I guess because they look like "real" pickup tyres

To be fair most of the "bouncy" problems only start when I put too much pressure in them and that pretty much happens with any tyre in my experience, there's always a sort of sweet spot, but that doesn't mean they aren't over rated for the load of course. I don't have any big complaints about the ride keeping in mind it is a pickup. Most of my problems come with the level of grip on anything that is wet in the sense that I've not really found any circumstances where they offer a real advantage in traction/grip over the Yoko ATS tyres I had previously and, in most of the real world situations I find myself, they are significantly worse.

Tyre supply seems to be a serious problem just now so it may be my change might have to wait until there is some availability and I'm not completely sure what I'm changing to as yet but it will be interesting to see if my views change once I've run on something else. I ran the Yokos for about 5 years (two sets) but it is always possible that my fond recollections won't translate to the real world when I change again! That is one of the problems of buying tyres - there aren't many people who've run a wide range of tyres for the full life of all the tyres and reviewing a tyre after a week, or a month, is almost pointless.

 

[carbon]

It is possible you are correct as, basically, I know nothing at all about load ratings or the like, I just try to get the hole in the middle the right size. I don't know if it is useful but the data sheet for the tyres I have fitted is here:

https://www.tyrelabelling.eu/EU/2020-740/en/124215_fcs_en.pdf

Mitsubishi released a "tarted up" L200 and they fitted these same tyres. The pickup wasn't designed to do any hard work, it was basically designed to have lots of colourful bits of plastic stuck on it to impress your friends, but it also got these BFGs I guess because they look like "real" pickup tyres

To be fair most of the "bouncy" problems only start when I put too much pressure in them and that pretty much happens with any tyre in my experience, there's always a sort of sweet spot, but that doesn't mean they aren't over rated for the load of course. I don't have any big complaints about the ride keeping in mind it is a pickup. Most of my problems come with the level of grip on anything that is wet in the sense that I've not really found any circumstances where they offer a real advantage in traction/grip over the Yoko ATS tyres I had previously and, in most of the real world situations I find myself, they are significantly worse.

Tyre supply seems to be a serious problem just now so it may be my change might have to wait until there is some availability and I'm not completely sure what I'm changing to as yet but it will be interesting to see if my views change once I've run on something else. I ran the Yokos for about 5 years (two sets) but it is always possible that my fond recollections won't translate to the real world when I change again! That is one of the problems of buying tyres - there aren't many people who've run a wide range of tyres for the full life of all the tyres and reviewing a tyre after a week, or a month, is almost pointless.

So, you’ve exposed me to the fact that British tires, at least, use different notations. I also just discovered that besides P-metric (passenger) and LT (light truck) tires, there’s a third style called Euro-metric. Sigh…

Setting that last bit aside, I think you have a load rating of E, which explains a lot of your problems.

Here’s the gibberish on your tire, followed by the gibberish of what I think is the equivalent US-spec tire:

• LT265/70R17 121/118S TL ALL-TERRAIN T/A KO2 LRE RWL GO
• LT265/70R17/E 121/118S RWL

“LRE” on your notation means, I think, “load rating E” (do check, I’m just an idiot on the internet). Also indicating it’s an E is the load index number (121/118) is the same on both tires. I get confused about load index numbers.

RWL = raised white letters
GO = ?
TL = ?
T/A in BF Goodrich tires means "Traction Advantage" link
S (after the 121/118) = speed rating (S = 180 km/h or 112 mph)
121/118 = “The 121 is the Load Index of the tire, which determines the amount of weight the tire can safely handle. Light Truck (LT) tires will typically have a dual rating such as 121/118. This is to accommodate a dual rear tire configuration. The first rating, 121, is for a single tire rear configuration and the second number, 118, is the rating if used in a dual rear tire configuration. The rating of the individual tire is lower when using dual tires. The overall rating is higher because there are two tires instead of one, but the individual tire rating is lower to ensure that, in the case of a flat tire, the remaining tire is not overloaded.” (Found here)

This makes my brain hurt, and I yearn for the days when tires, at least for trucks, we’re labeled sensibly, like 31x10.50 R15, which means 31” tall x 10.50” wide, 15” tall rim.

Those tires still exist but are somehow called “high floatation” tires now. Double sigh…