Longest deer with copper ammo??

[deerstalker.308]

That as .308, have purchased a .308 and .280 recently and probably going to run factory through the .308 as it’s main use is target but want a deer load for a back up to the .280

I will say this, all this feedback is based on large reds, on the only smaller deer so far to be taken (a munty buck) he was badger food, but to be fair that could have been unlucky shot angle etc, the exit was slightly too far back although still the right side of the diaphragm yet it managed to suck most of the stomach out through the exit. The mess was pretty bad. But I’ve had similar from a less than perfect similar shot from lead so I wouldn't judge it on that. Certainly on a large animal they seem to work ver well. Time will tell with more roe and munties what the difference is like.

 

[25 Sharps]

I will say this, all this feedback is based on large reds, on the only smaller deer so far to be taken (a munty buck) he was badger food, but to be fair that could have been unlucky shot angle etc, the exit was slightly too far back although still the right side of the diaphragm yet it managed to suck most of the stomach out through the exit. The mess was pretty bad. But I’ve had similar from a less than perfect similar shot from lead so I wouldn't judge it on that. Certainly on a large animal they seem to work ver well. Time will tell with more roe and munties what the difference is like.

I shot a munti doe at 212 yards with the .280, 140 gr Nosler BT doing 3200 FPS at the muzzle. That made a mess, removed the front legs and sucked the rumen contents out of the exit.

I have the 25-45 for smaller deer (everything up to roe) and the .280 or .308 for reds and fallow. The 25 is pretty much the perfect roe round, 1780 ft-lb with no recoil really, little meat damage and cheap to feed. I hope I can make it work with copper but I think I will lose too much case capacity.

 

[Utectok]

I’m going to explore the 6.5 bullet (6.5x55) under 250 m my .308 or my 6.5 will do the job but the numbers look much better with the 6.5m after that maintaining 2000fps till 425m or so not that I shoot that far but…….

 

[25 Sharps]

I’m going to explore the 6.5 bullet (6.5x55) under 250 m my .308 or my 6.5 will do the job but the numbers look much better with the 6.5m after that maintaining 2000fps till 425m or so not that I shoot that far but…….

Which bullet ?

 

[Utectok]

Which bullet ?

I’m gonna try 120gn Barnes ttsx if I can get it to go between 2900 and 3000fps which looks possible then it should ad a good 50m+ to the effective range of my .308 which is a 130gn ttsx running at 2960fps. but slows a lot quicker than the 6.5

 

[25 Sharps]

I’m gonna try 120gn Barnes ttsx if I can get it to go between 2900 and 3000fps which looks possible then it should ad a good 50m+ to the effective range of my .308 which is a 130gn ttsx running at 2960fps. but slows a lot quicker than the 6.5

Makes sense, what barrel length are you running?

Will you be calculating actual BC based on your load or relying on manufacturer’s data?

 

[Utectok]

Makes sense, what barrel length are you running?

Will you be calculating actual BC based on your load or relying on manufacturer’s data?

Well it’s a pretty modest barrel of 22” I’d prefer a 24” but it’s what I have 26 being to long for hunting imho. I’ll worry about the bc once I’ve done some drop testing of the load. First I need to get a stable node with one of my powders

 

[Selous]

So, in contrast, I’ve been trialling the Geco Zero 136gr now since this thread prompted me to try something else. Wowzers. What a difference. Knockdown is incredible, wound channel decisive, bullet is designed so the front half splits into petals which detach creating internal damage and the rear “slug” tunnels through creating a wound channel and exit. This was recovered from under the skin of a 140kg (larder weight) stag, the rear section retained 92.5gr of its original 136gr weight, most others have exited with a tiny exit wound but with plenty of organ damage. No bruising or meat damage. Seems to be literally the perfect round.

Great feedback, thanks! So in essence this bullet is behaving like a Nosler Partition. I suspected this would be the case from looking at the design. Shame they haven’t made the bullet a bit more aerodynamic.

 

[deerstalker.308]

Great feedback, thanks! So in essence this bullet is behaving like a Nosler Partition. I suspected this would be the case from looking at the design. Shame they haven’t made the bullet a bit more aerodynamic.

The deer didn’t seem too fussed about the aerodynamics…..

 

[takbok]

That is extremely light and fast for calibre though and ain’t going to do your barrel much good!

It will decisively kill any deer in the UK, regardles of this strange 'light for calibre' aversion. This obsession with barrel wear is an internet phenomenon and doesn't affect most people in the real world.

 

[Shabz]

That is extremely light and fast for calibre though and ain’t going to do your barrel much good!

It’s only a deer rifle. If I shoot 100 deer per year, it’ll last me ten years.

 

[25 Sharps]

It will decisively kill any deer in the UK, regardles of this strange 'light for calibre' aversion. This obsession with barrel wear is an internet phenomenon and doesn't affect most people in the real world.

It’s only a deer rifle. If I shoot 100 deer per year, it’ll last me ten years.

It is fact that it happens but probably doesn’t affect deer stalkers as much as range shooters or those that like to practice a lot in between shooting 100 deer a year.

As for light for calibre, BC will generally be crap compared to a typical weight for calibre, as you are aware this means it will lose velocity and energy more quickly which is obviously an issue at range with lead free relying on speed for expansion.

 

[NigelM]

4 Reds shot last week all with copper.

1. Shot about 4" too far back at 201m. Rear lung, the right side of the diaphragm. Small entry, small exit. Tracked it for 1500m before it couched up and I could get into position to finish it off. 139gr GMX from 7mm08 with MV of around 2750fps
2. Shot just behind heart at 230m. Small entry, small exit. The stag stood for 30 seconds not moving before we put another into it and it went down. 120gr GMX from 6.5CM with MV of around 2800fps.
3. Neck shot, slightly low at 110m. Claret spurting everywhere and the stag stood for a second shot. 130gr Federal Premium Copper from a 270win at MV of 3010 fps.
4. Hillar shot at 189m. Small entry, no exit we could find. Stag dropped like a rock to the shot and never flinched afterwards. 124gr Yew Tree from a 7mm08 with MV of 3035fps

What did I take from this?

1. There is far less margin for error with a copper bullet than a lead one. I believe 2 & 3 above would have been killed faster with a single shot if the bullet had been a fragmenting lead one and 1 above would have run a much, much shorter distance before it expired.
2. Hillar/shoulder shot placement is a much safer and more effective choice than traditional chest placements.
3. There might be something in these fragmenting copper designs like the Yew Tree - more samples needed.

 

[User00033]

4 Reds shot last week all with copper.

1. Shot about 4" too far back at 201m. Rear lung, the right side of the diaphragm. Small entry, small exit. Tracked it for 1500m before it couched up and I could get into position to finish it off. 139gr GMX from 7mm08 with MV of around 2750fps
2. Shot just behind heart at 230m. Small entry, small exit. The stag stood for 30 seconds not moving before we put another into it and it went down. 120gr GMX from 6.5CM with MV of around 2800fps.
3. Neck shot, slightly low at 110m. Claret spurting everywhere and the stag stood for a second shot. 130gr Federal Premium Copper from a 270win at MV of 3010 fps.
4. Hillar shot at 189m. Small entry, no exit we could find. Stag dropped like a rock to the shot and never flinched afterwards. 124gr Yew Tree from a 7mm08 with MV of 3035fps

What did I take from this?

1. There is far less margin for error with a copper bullet than a lead one. I believe 2 & 3 above would have been killed faster with a single shot if the bullet had been a fragmenting lead one and 1 above would have run a much, much shorter distance before it expired.
2. Hillar/shoulder shot placement is a much safer and more effective choice than traditional chest placements.
3. There might be something in these fragmenting copper designs like the Yew Tree - more samples needed.

A mirror image of our experiences.

 

[deerstalker.308]

4 Reds shot last week all with copper.

1. Shot about 4" too far back at 201m. Rear lung, the right side of the diaphragm. Small entry, small exit. Tracked it for 1500m before it couched up and I could get into position to finish it off. 139gr GMX from 7mm08 with MV of around 2750fps
2. Shot just behind heart at 230m. Small entry, small exit. The stag stood for 30 seconds not moving before we put another into it and it went down. 120gr GMX from 6.5CM with MV of around 2800fps.
3. Neck shot, slightly low at 110m. Claret spurting everywhere and the stag stood for a second shot. 130gr Federal Premium Copper from a 270win at MV of 3010 fps.
4. Hillar shot at 189m. Small entry, no exit we could find. Stag dropped like a rock to the shot and never flinched afterwards. 124gr Yew Tree from a 7mm08 with MV of 3035fps

What did I take from this?

1. There is far less margin for error with a copper bullet than a lead one. I believe 2 & 3 above would have been killed faster with a single shot if the bullet had been a fragmenting lead one and 1 above would have run a much, much shorter distance before it expired.
2. Hillar/shoulder shot placement is a much safer and more effective choice than traditional chest placements.
3. There might be something in these fragmenting copper designs like the Yew Tree - more samples needed.

Interesting findings. What I like about the Geco ones I’ve been using is the fragmenting front half of the bullet followed by the solid rear slug, the combination seems to remove the issues you (and I) had found with my other experiences of lead free. So far I’m a convert with these rounds. Certainly wasn’t with the RWS hit, my experiences followed yours to a T. Second shots required even though the first was a perfectly good kill shot. Not needed with the Geco and the lighter rounds.

 

[Treedave]

First rutting stag taken with 6.5 CM & Barnes 127gr Lrx combination with a MV of 2680 fps.
Large stag (100 kg on the hook) amped up from chasing the satellite stags for previous 10 mins, taken at 90 m with a chest shot. He gave a small jump, turned and started to move away before going down nose first. The bullet had parted the arteries from the heart.
Entry was calibre sized between the ribs and exit had taken all the flesh from between two ribs with some minor bone damage, 1-1.5” hole.

With the accuracy out to distance that this set up gives me I’m more than happy with its performance today.

 

[User00026]

4 Reds shot last week all with copper.

1. Shot about 4" too far back at 201m. Rear lung, the right side of the diaphragm. Small entry, small exit. Tracked it for 1500m before it couched up and I could get into position to finish it off. 139gr GMX from 7mm08 with MV of around 2750fps
2. Shot just behind heart at 230m. Small entry, small exit. The stag stood for 30 seconds not moving before we put another into it and it went down. 120gr GMX from 6.5CM with MV of around 2800fps.
3. Neck shot, slightly low at 110m. Claret spurting everywhere and the stag stood for a second shot. 130gr Federal Premium Copper from a 270win at MV of 3010 fps.
4. Hillar shot at 189m. Small entry, no exit we could find. Stag dropped like a rock to the shot and never flinched afterwards. 124gr Yew Tree from a 7mm08 with MV of 3035fps

What did I take from this?

1. There is far less margin for error with a copper bullet than a lead one. I believe 2 & 3 above would have been killed faster with a single shot if the bullet had been a fragmenting lead one and 1 above would have run a much, much shorter distance before it expired.
2. Hillar/shoulder shot placement is a much safer and more effective choice than traditional chest placements.
3. There might be something in these fragmenting copper designs like the Yew Tree - more samples needed.

That’s a long track 1500m! Good on you not giving up

 

[NigelM]

That’s a long track 1500m! Good on you not giving up

Funnily enough, looking back on it, it was my best day of the week. A real sense of satisfaction in sorting out a problem. We lost him three times but patience and glassing found him again on each occasion. It took a while but was very rewarding.

 

[User00033]

I’ll wager £5 that the copper bullet design that wins in Britain is a UK produced fragmenting design.

 

[JH83]

4 Reds shot last week all with copper.

1. Shot about 4" too far back at 201m. Rear lung, the right side of the diaphragm. Small entry, small exit. Tracked it for 1500m before it couched up and I could get into position to finish it off. 139gr GMX from 7mm08 with MV of around 2750fps
2. Shot just behind heart at 230m. Small entry, small exit. The stag stood for 30 seconds not moving before we put another into it and it went down. 120gr GMX from 6.5CM with MV of around 2800fps.
3. Neck shot, slightly low at 110m. Claret spurting everywhere and the stag stood for a second shot. 130gr Federal Premium Copper from a 270win at MV of 3010 fps.
4. Hillar shot at 189m. Small entry, no exit we could find. Stag dropped like a rock to the shot and never flinched afterwards. 124gr Yew Tree from a 7mm08 with MV of 3035fps

What did I take from this?

1. There is far less margin for error with a copper bullet than a lead one. I believe 2 & 3 above would have been killed faster with a single shot if the bullet had been a fragmenting lead one and 1 above would have run a much, much shorter distance before it expired.
2. Hillar/shoulder shot placement is a much safer and more effective choice than traditional chest placements.
3. There might be something in these fragmenting copper designs like the Yew Tree - more samples needed.

Interesting.

This is an identical account to factory GMX I used in 25-06 a few seasons ago. Just awful. Large stags stood frozen to the spot, neck shots jumping back up for a second shot etc etc.

But…..

I’m now on hand loaded 6.5/308 TTSX-100g and 130g and these seem better, largely owing to the much higher MV which we set out to get (3350 in 6.5, 3000 in 308). So far much happier-I’m a hundred or so beasts into the experiment, shot some very large reds, sika and nothing seems to go far. The 6.5 is a bugger for tiny exits and nae blood trail, but things seem to DRT anyway