Just had an unexpected home visit from 3 officers.

[Oracle]

What a joke, like the service provided!!

To be fair, HMIC requested information from all 43 forces for information in relation to Firearms Licensing. In addition 11 forces were visited personally, with firearms licensing departments visited, office staff, FEOs and managers interviewed regarding working practices along with those senior police officers having oversight and responsibility for the decision making processes within. Devon & Cornwall were not one of the 11 forces visited during the review, but would have been made fully aware of the HMIC findings and recommendations, which were published to the government within 18 months...September 2015....Say no more.

 

[Idlemusket]

I believe unannounced visits were available to the police to check security etc, as far back as 2014 its not something new. I had a knock on the door one evening about quite a few years ago in my case it was the FEO and a uniformed officer - tea and biscuits and a brief look around job done.

 

[Scapegoat]

Gotta love a conjecture thread!

Imagine if you will a policing unit dedicated to removing the scourge of illegally-held firearms from our shores. They work at a regional rather than local level.

Now, we all know that it is possible to source illegal firearms on the black market. They aren't that hard to come across, provided you move in the right sort of circles, but the sticking point in the wannabe armed criminal's way is the fact that ammunition is very hard to come by. Commercially manufactured handgun ammunition is not available to steal even, as the UK handgun market is restricted to such an extent.

So the one link in the chain is the underworld armourer. I know of several cases where a single "armourer" has been responsible for churning out pistol ammo and supplying various gangs or middlemen. It proved very lucrative.

Now, recent changes in legislation and working practices meant that the underworld armourer has a supply problem. There are far more restrictions on the component parts of ammo, especially primers.

Now imagine if you will that the regional team are working on a supply chain in a specific region. Part of their work will be to see who (as an example) has been purchasing primers. They will have a system of enquiries whereby they will legitimately be able to access information from the purveyors of primers. Without going into detail (as I said, it's all conjecture until we know the true reasons and factors behind the visit in the OP) there may well be other factors best known to the enquiry officers which led them to cross-index a purchase of reloading components to the extent that it became necessary to make a visit to ensure that the purchaser was indeed reloading sporting rifle ammunition, rather than either making ammunition for a crime syndicate, or passing the components along a supply chain.

That sort of enquiry needs must be discreet. They aren't going to tell the OP the exact reason behind their visit, he really doesn't need to know why they are so interested in his Hornady press and reloading bench setup, but by cooperating he has most probably been eliminated from any further suspicion. They have already done quite a bit of background stuff by obtaining details of his FAC, and to be fair to all concerned, the FEO is the last person who would have been given details of the reasons behind their visit.

 

[Tazz]

kenbro old son,

Not ignoring you at all. Why would I?

However, I do have my profile locked down, which may have given you that impression.

I am mainly ignoring two members (and they are the same person) - you know who you are don't you?

Both of you...

Are you sure it’s not just someone suffering from schizophrenia

​

 

[Stalker62]

Are you sure it’s not just someone suffering from schizophrenia

We I don't think so...

 

[Davros]

As an FAC holder, you might find its a condition of having a certificate to let police enter your place of storage without appointment.

To my knowledge they have to power to do spot checks on any certificate holder. However the certificate holder is in their right to politely say that it is not a convenient time and request they rearrange the visit.

 

[griff]

To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

did nobody read this?

 

[Stalker62]

To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

did nobody read this?

Yes.

 

[kenbro]

View attachment 226641

Yes, that’s about a mile for where we now live.
A police failing after Hughes left our house allowed him to commit other crimes before he was jailed.
Ken.

 

[Stalker62]

Yes, that’s about a mile for where we now live.
A police failing after Hughes left our house allowed him to commit other crimes before he was jailed.

Anthony Hughes was never jailed for the shooting of the Police Officers.

He shot himself dead with the same firearm he use to kill and wound the Police Officers.

After a manhunt, the gunman, later identified as Anthony Hughes from Baguley, was traced to a garage in Kendray, South Yorkshire. When officers entered they found Hughes' body; he had killed himself with the same gun used in the attack on Codling and Bowden. No motive was ever established for the attack, except that Hughes had previously carried out a series of armed robberies, had served 15 years in prison for a string of violent offences, and had indicated his desire to kill a police officer following an earlier court appearance for a minor offence for which he was fined.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

As an FAC holder, you might find its a condition of having a certificate to let police enter your place of storage without appointment.

Is it ****!

I am sorry, three officers without an appointment or call or justification based on a particular crime or suspicion of such is a fishing exercise.

Why are they there? first question
If that doesn’t stack up then they can elther come back without the heavy handed training day approach or make an appointment

Being an FAC holder does not mean you relinquish your basic rights.

“Excuse me sir, we understand you [like making sex toys] in your shed. Mind if me and my two colleagues come in and ask you lots of questions?”

[insert ANY legal pastime that is also none of anyone else’s business]

You have had your pants pulled down there and I would be requesting IN WRITING who initiated the visit and why?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

New guidelines were issued on Wednesday to come into force on 1st November. If the police have a good reason to turn up at my door within the next 10 days, I'll be happy to let them in after checking their official warrant cards. The explanation for their visit will need to be specific and credible. From 1st November I'll be following the rules to the letter, and will expect the same from them.

Firearms licensing: statutory guidance for police

How police chiefs should carry out checks when assessing someone's suitability to own firearms or become a registered firearms dealer.

www.gov.uk

Unannounced visits

4.7 In the case of certificate holders, the police should undertake an unannounced visit or inspection where it is judged necessary to do so, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm. It is not expected that the police will undertake unannounced visits or inspections at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns, and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.

4.8 A power of entry, subject to warrant, is available to the police. While this is an important power, it will not be necessary in all cases where an inspection or home visit is required. It is expected that responsible certificate holders will co-operate with reasonable requests to inspect security arrangements or other aspects of suitability, and failure to do so may be taken into account when police consider suitability to possess the firearms. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

“Good reason”
Reasonable suspicion of a crime having taken place or likely to.
“Specific intelligence, threat or risk of harm”

Not carte blanche entry

 

[Stalker62]

Is it ****!

Fair point well made.

I am sorry, three officers without an appointment or call or justification based on a particular crime or suspicion of such is a fishing exercise.

If that is true (I don't know) then that is true.

Why are they there? first question

Agreed.

If that doesn’t stack up then they can elther come back without the heavy handed training day approach or make an appointment

"Heavy handed training day"...actually that smells about right.

Being an FAC holder does not mean you relinquish your basic rights.

Absolutely.

“Excuse me sir, we understand you [like making sex toys] in your shed. Mind if me and my two colleagues come in and ask you lots of questions?”

Yes; it does feel that way, doesn't it.

[insert ANY legal pastime that is also none of anyone else’s business]

You have had your pants pulled down there and I would be requesting IN WRITING who initiated the visit and why?

IN WRITING.

Why do folk think that writing "IN WRITING" will carry any weight? It's rhetorical - I know why.



PS

IT DOESN"T

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Fair point well made.

If that is true (I don't know) then that is true.

Agreed.

"Heavy handed training day"...actually that smells about right.

Absolutely.

Yes; it does feel that way, doesn't it.


IN WRITING.

Why do folk think that writing "IN WRITING" will carry any weight? It's rhetorical - I know why.



PS

IT DOESN"T

Because from experience the inability to commit it to written statement means they:

A) dont know the answer
B) know they are wrong
C) are not senior enough to commit to a statement that will allow a paper trail.

If you have caught them doing something they shouldn’t they absolutely will not commit it to written statement

 

[308tikka]

“Good reason”
Reasonable suspicion of a crime having taken place or likely to.
“Specific intelligence, threat or risk of harm”

Not carte blanche entry

Yes-and if theres been a recent dispute, with one party being accused of armed trespass, threatening behaviour or harassment, or even shooting towards a property, then the police will be duty bound to investigate. Irrespective of actualité.

Good luck spouting ‘uman rights in that case.

Hey ho, do what you will. Let me know how the lack of co-operation goes down if it happens to you. I do love a good story.

 

[andyk]

Yes-and if theres been a recent dispute, with one party being accused of armed trespass, threatening behaviour or harassment, or even shooting towards a property, then the police will be duty bound to investigate. Irrespective of actualité.

Good luck spouting ‘uman rights in that case.

Hey ho, do what you will. Let me know how the lack of co-operation goes down if it happens to you. I do love a good story.

Quite right, but in that situation, would it not be reasonable for the officers to explain that is the reason for their unannounced visit?

I have no objection to the police making such visits where they have a reason but we are not talking about matters of national security here, there is no reason why they can’t be transparent.

If they just want a nosey around and to have a general chat to make sure you’re still sane, that is fine but they should make an appointment, no?

 

[308tikka]

Quite right, but in that situation, would it not be reasonable for the officers to explain that is the reason for their unannounced visit?

I have no objection to the police making such visits where they have a reason but we are not talking about matters of national security here, there is no reason why they can’t be transparent.

If they just want a nosey around and to have a general chat to make sure you’re still sane, that is fine but they should make an appointment, no?

Quite, but I suppose that would depend if their information led them to believe the individual was likely to be reasonable. Perhaps some shouting matches in the field would indicate otherwise? Or allegations of such?

This is what happens if a malicious complaint is made. Theyre just not going to take chances, or explain why. Id have thought it was fairly obvious.

‘quite an allegation, officer. Who is the source of that?’

‘Cant possibly say’.

We dont have rights to firearms in the UK. Its always a privilege which can be taken away, and we can opine all day long with why that might be wrong, and not fit for 2021, but there we are. Its just the way it is.

 

[Pedro]

What a lot of people either misquoting or making up bits of law and procedure! Some of it is correct. Some of it is, at best misguided. Anyway...

It's entirely possible that this visit was instigated by your previous problems with your permission's neighbour. He would have called the police at some stage. Quite probably magnifying any problems he perceives, which is to some sadly human nature. The police speak to him, they speak to you. Problem solved. Or so you think. Sometime later, someone with that responsibility will do a search of police logs of incidents involving firearms and yours is amongst them. They are then discussed by those responsible for doing such things at a meeting. (Police like having lots of meetings.) A plan of action is decided upon. I suspect that in this case, they have decided to ensure that anything alleged against you is looked at again, rather than miss anything and the poo hits the fan sometime in the future. They will look at any online presence you have, maybe speak to firearms shops you might use, approach any ranges you frequent, maybe the landowners of your permission and whatever else is available in the way of enquiries. Armed with all this information, they then called on you. That wouldn't have been an FEO, whose sole job is to deal with applications/renewals, but police officers who could, if necessary take action if there's something wrong. Which, it appears, they didn't because they found nothing amiss. Of course this would take a bit of time to happen (about an issue you thought was over and done with).

Oh, and another thing, don't hold your breath about the police telling you who and why they came. For fairly obvious reasons, they will keep that to themselves. Or nobody would tell the cops anything. But they will, when all is done and dusted have a good idea whether the complainant (assuming there was one) is, as one might say, gilding the lily.

 

[Pete1774]

I believe unannounced visits were available to the police to check security etc, as far back as 2014 its not something new. I had a knock on the door one evening about quite a few years ago in my case it was the FEO and a uniformed officer - tea and biscuits and a brief look around job done.

I used to get unannounced visits back in the 1970s. However back then firearms was a sort of secondary duty for a local constable. One who turned up asked me. "Is it loaded?" when I handed him a revolver with the cylinder flipped out!

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Yes-and if theres been a recent dispute, with one party being accused of armed trespass, threatening behaviour or harassment, or even shooting towards a property, then the police will be duty bound to investigate. Irrespective of actualité.

Good luck spouting ‘uman rights in that case.

Hey ho, do what you will. Let me know how the lack of co-operation goes down if it happens to you. I do love a good story.

That scenario matches the requirements

Someone reloading in a shed….?