Just had an unexpected home visit from 3 officers.
- Thread starter 12gsnapcaps
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SamHuntVic
Well-Known Member
The OP is not alone. In Oz we have similar visits by police for firearms storage regs compliance. Sometimes they overstep their authority and try to politely bully their way in at improper times, maybe they are making up time on a list that has taken longer than planned, who knows. However, we also have rights to refuse entry if it is really inconvenient and well after hours, or say at 8:00 PM one has had a few drinks. It's possible that mistakes could be made by an owner in cases like that and cause serious problems.
My last inspection was an horrendous exercise for my wife. I was away hunting for 10 days in a remote area when on Sunday night at 8:30 PM, dead dark in May here, two police knocked on the door and asked her if I lived here. First thoughts were that something had happened to me and she could hardly speak. You can imagine the state she was in before they explained that they were here for an inspection. Legally, only the firearms owner can have access to the safe keys, but they insisted and she held her ground courageously and explained my whereabouts. They left a card and took off. It took two weeks for my wife to stop shaking. I called the locals when I returned and made an appointment. The almost immediate visit is another story where I let them know my feelings, along the lines of, the junior of the two retired outside with a worried look on his face.
Grant.
My last inspection was an horrendous exercise for my wife. I was away hunting for 10 days in a remote area when on Sunday night at 8:30 PM, dead dark in May here, two police knocked on the door and asked her if I lived here. First thoughts were that something had happened to me and she could hardly speak. You can imagine the state she was in before they explained that they were here for an inspection. Legally, only the firearms owner can have access to the safe keys, but they insisted and she held her ground courageously and explained my whereabouts. They left a card and took off. It took two weeks for my wife to stop shaking. I called the locals when I returned and made an appointment. The almost immediate visit is another story where I let them know my feelings, along the lines of, the junior of the two retired outside with a worried look on his face.
Grant.
I have read this through without any comment up to now.
In the circumstances it is my opinion that the police should not have been allowed in - you could escape unreasonable consequences by stressing no Covid protection. However as many have said the police have no RIGHT of entry except by warrant. Where significant suspicion or reasons exist on their part to make a visit necessary, they should ALWAYS give a valid and reasonable reason to ask to enter your premises/home, and you should check, if the slightest doubt exists as in this case - (no covid protection) by dialling 999, as it is an emergency and could result in the theft of firearms - it will also be logged and you should ask for an incident number. Leave them waiting outside whilst you do this. It is not unreasonable for you to check.
In most cases you would expect at most 2 police officers to turn up and offer a reason. 3 is mob-handed and a deliberate intimidation - they could have brought 6 and left four in the car. In my view you should immediately have been suspicious and asked why they wanted entry - for what specific reason did it necessitate a home visit by three officers - they were no more ballistics specialists than porridge makers - the Police have Armourers and that's it and for their own firearms repair, storage, records of issue and replacement. I am lucky, I have been in a Police armaments facility and met the staff.
I would immediately write to your local Chief Constable and Police and Crime Commissioner setting out the facts, the officers names and ask for an explanation under the Freedom of Information Act and pass this on to your MP and ask for his opinion.
It is only by reasonable challenge where the LAW is being unfairly implemented or ignored, can we re-establish the balance, we are not criminals and must be trewated as innocent until proved guilty. It might be a right or a privilege to own a firearm but to me at least it is clear that incursion by the 'establshment' into the clear space between the law and its implementation is as crude a tool as is possible to justify and undermines the RULE OF LAW.
If I stick to the letter of the law - as I must to be a firearm owner and user, so must the POLICE.
One law for them and one for us is the road to closure of the sport and why we should have supporting orgs literally fighting our corner. If you are a member of one ask what they will do about it.
In the circumstances it is my opinion that the police should not have been allowed in - you could escape unreasonable consequences by stressing no Covid protection. However as many have said the police have no RIGHT of entry except by warrant. Where significant suspicion or reasons exist on their part to make a visit necessary, they should ALWAYS give a valid and reasonable reason to ask to enter your premises/home, and you should check, if the slightest doubt exists as in this case - (no covid protection) by dialling 999, as it is an emergency and could result in the theft of firearms - it will also be logged and you should ask for an incident number. Leave them waiting outside whilst you do this. It is not unreasonable for you to check.
In most cases you would expect at most 2 police officers to turn up and offer a reason. 3 is mob-handed and a deliberate intimidation - they could have brought 6 and left four in the car. In my view you should immediately have been suspicious and asked why they wanted entry - for what specific reason did it necessitate a home visit by three officers - they were no more ballistics specialists than porridge makers - the Police have Armourers and that's it and for their own firearms repair, storage, records of issue and replacement. I am lucky, I have been in a Police armaments facility and met the staff.
I would immediately write to your local Chief Constable and Police and Crime Commissioner setting out the facts, the officers names and ask for an explanation under the Freedom of Information Act and pass this on to your MP and ask for his opinion.
It is only by reasonable challenge where the LAW is being unfairly implemented or ignored, can we re-establish the balance, we are not criminals and must be trewated as innocent until proved guilty. It might be a right or a privilege to own a firearm but to me at least it is clear that incursion by the 'establshment' into the clear space between the law and its implementation is as crude a tool as is possible to justify and undermines the RULE OF LAW.
If I stick to the letter of the law - as I must to be a firearm owner and user, so must the POLICE.
One law for them and one for us is the road to closure of the sport and why we should have supporting orgs literally fighting our corner. If you are a member of one ask what they will do about it.
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
I have taken your advice and written (a very polite) complaint to my Chief Constable, PCC & MP, cc'd in BASC, also including a FOI request for the reasons why this heavy handed unannounced visit occurred.
The more time I have now to run through the events in my head, the more bizzare the whole episode is. Myself and my mother walking in our pyjamas around my house, my work laptop pinging in the background, three police asking me to show them how to reload a cartridge in my spare room.
I know we have to accept some police scrutinity into our lives but i can't fathom what gave them the reason for the above.
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Thet wanted you to demo???????? 
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
Yes, the majority of the whole interaction was them asking me to show them the equipment, explain how i do it and/or actually reload a cartridge whilst they explained how there are dangers of people making handgun ammunition and selling it on the blackmarket.
As I stood in my pyjamas next to my small desk with some .303 brass and a lee loader on top.
Utterly Bizziare
As I stood in my pyjamas next to my small desk with some .303 brass and a lee loader on top.
Utterly Bizziare
SikaHunter
Well-Known Member
I would love to hear the response you get from the HQ on this please
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
So would I! I will update the community once I have any response.
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
It's frustrating that I have to go to such lengths to get an explanation.
Pellet Pinger
Well-Known Member
You didn’t get arrested for wearing pajamas then…?
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
Nah they are Calvin Klein pyjamas I did look rather fashionable.
Pellet Pinger
Well-Known Member
Let you off then
So they explained why they were there, slightly ambiguously regardless.
Sounds like they got a free training course that the dep. don’t have to fund too
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
Having second thoughts about my expediting this now (I sent a complaint email to the Chief Constable, PCC & MP)
Do you think my force will try to use this against me? Or are they used to formal complaints?
I really am trying to do the right thing here but not going to lie, wracked with anxiety!
Do you think my force will try to use this against me? Or are they used to formal complaints?
I really am trying to do the right thing here but not going to lie, wracked with anxiety!
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with sending a polite email asking them to explain their visit.
Banging off emails and "cc" ing (is there such a word) everyone in, is unlikely to excite the CC, your MP, or your Shooting Society of choice.
Given that you are where you are with this, perhaps ask for quick a meeting with your FEO (that way the risk of matters getting 'lost in translation" is reduced).
Complaints against the Police are common - provided they are not vexatious, it will not (despite what some 'grassy knoll' apologists will suggest) be used against you.
It is common, it seems to me, that folk are very quick to suggest you complain "in writing" (OFTEN IN BOLD) and "demand" stuff.
Fine. That is one way.
I have always found the gentler way is more conducive to a good outcome.
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Will be waters of a ducks back did an official complaint against the chief constable when they introduced the mandatory gp medical reporting via the CC they are Teflon coated nothing we do or say sticks, so don’t worry, have renewed both my sgc and FAC since, no problem.
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
That's a very good point, I'm presuming the CC, PCC and MP will even give half a tuppeny toss about my situation. I bet the email never even gets read.
That really does sound bizarre, do you even have a pistol calibre on your ticket?
12gsnapcaps
Well-Known Member
Nope. I have .22LR, .17HMR, .303 and .308
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