Comparing Terminal Performance of Non-lead/Copper Bullets on UK Deer
- Thread starter User00040
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Will do - November should give the opportunity for more detail
I agree. You will get runners (limpers) aiming there with either lead or copper. Needs to be half way up.Picturing that in my head, I think that's a bit low...
Yes, agree with you.
Nice to get their data as well though as they will have had an overarching approach. Well hopefully.
The danger with informal studies is that not all data is captured, or is subjective across multiple respondents, so when you merge data sets you only end up with a smaller subset of common data at best or a collection of difficult to interpret cases at worst (common on the internet). It would be a shame to go to a lot of effort and miss meaningful insights. Hence the relative merits of large studies set up by a managing/cordinating body
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Yes. I agree. I think, from a human perspective, stalkers are more likely to listen to the experiences of other stalkers than they are to most of the likely coordinators of any such research. The history of mala fides of many of the latter is such that they are easy for most of us (myself included) to dismiss out-of-hand as motivated by something other than scientific curiosity.
Copper bullets tend not to fragment like lead ones, so a shot passing through a roe half way up will stand more chance of missing the arteries and heart than one placed a little lower where it would pass through the upper heart . As for hitting the leg /shoulder bones, the slightly lower shot is further away from them. See attached links.
Clearly deer stance needs to be taken on board with the shot. - I guess more broken legs are caused by failure to account for that.
(Scroll photos in the ad to show roe anatomy picture)
www.bushwear.co.uk
Caberslash, my mentor was very much into keeping carcasses clean (he was a game dealer) and geting the most meat. Plus it takes much more work to clean a messily shot beast.
Also the days of my learning were before the time of much copper bullet usage in the UK. - I'm sure my mentor would approve of copper.
Back to the OP subject, last week my guest shot a roe buck with a TTSX 130 grain bullet at 3000ft/sec and close range. The bullet struck a bit high (it was a downhil/ quartering shot, smashing through the narrow /solid area of the shoulder. The petals broke off and a couple were found in the cavity having caused quite a mess and meat loss.
The main part of the bullet kept going straight as expected).
The bullet and fragments wrecked the arteries above the heart and missed the heart completely. As to be expected it was a bang-flop instantaneous kill.
Dodgyknees I wrote 20mm low ---- Not 2".
Ian
Clearly deer stance needs to be taken on board with the shot. - I guess more broken legs are caused by failure to account for that.
(Scroll photos in the ad to show roe anatomy picture)
BushWear 4 Pk Double Sided Roe Target
Sharpen your aim and improve your field accuracy with the BushWear 4 Pack Double-Sided Roe Targets—realistic, durable targets designed specifically for hunters and shooting enthusiasts. Featuring lifelike roe deer imagery and multicoloured backgrounds, these targets offer a more engaging and...
www.bushwear.co.uk
Caberslash, my mentor was very much into keeping carcasses clean (he was a game dealer) and geting the most meat. Plus it takes much more work to clean a messily shot beast.
Also the days of my learning were before the time of much copper bullet usage in the UK. - I'm sure my mentor would approve of copper.
Back to the OP subject, last week my guest shot a roe buck with a TTSX 130 grain bullet at 3000ft/sec and close range. The bullet struck a bit high (it was a downhil/ quartering shot, smashing through the narrow /solid area of the shoulder. The petals broke off and a couple were found in the cavity having caused quite a mess and meat loss.
The main part of the bullet kept going straight as expected).
The bullet and fragments wrecked the arteries above the heart and missed the heart completely. As to be expected it was a bang-flop instantaneous kill.
Dodgyknees I wrote 20mm low ---- Not 2".
Ian
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Thanks for this Ian, presume it was a .270 Win or .308W?
I'd argue that adjusting shot placement into the hilar/high shoulder area, with the objective of achieving a bang-flop, at the expense of meat damage is a compromise we have to make, as we all know an unrecovered carcass is 100% meat loss.
If copper really has merit for the food chain then game dealers should also accept this.
There was a big hoo-haa regarding a consultation (you will know better than me which one it was) that gamedealers wanted head-shot deer, but syndicates/groups like Defence Deer Management were strongly against this (ironic given their profession).
I think we can all agree that with truly wild deer we will never be able to get perfect shot placement every time, and ultimately we should be aiming to kill our quarry as quickly and cleanly as possible, and if this means another round into it to compensate for a poor first shot, then so be it.
Hi "H" it was a 308 win.
Ian
Ian
100%
Exit wound
Species: Roe
Sex: Male
Larder Weight (head, legs and internal organs removed): 13kg
Rifle Calibre/Chambering: .270 Winchester
Ammunition Type: Factory- Sako Powerhead II
Bullet manufacturer: Barnes
Bullet model: TTSX
Bullet weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity (if known): 3,180 fps
Barrel Length: 20 inches
Barrel Twist rate (if known): 1-10"
Shot distance: 140 meters,ranged
Shot placement: High chest, Broadside
Distance travelled: 3 meters
Tracking dog required? No.
Spotted facing head on, deer turned to face broadside, slightly uphill, so the bullet was aimed for the high chest. Deer dropped to the shot and expired quickly. Bullet expanded well, hitting ribs on entry and exit, damage to internal organs was effective.
Species: Roe
Sex: Male
Larder Weight (head, legs and internal organs removed): 13kg
Rifle Calibre/Chambering: .270 Winchester
Ammunition Type: Factory- Sako Powerhead II
Bullet manufacturer: Barnes
Bullet model: TTSX
Bullet weight: 110 grains
Muzzle Velocity (if known): 3,180 fps
Barrel Length: 20 inches
Barrel Twist rate (if known): 1-10"
Shot distance: 140 meters,ranged
Shot placement: High chest, Broadside
Distance travelled: 3 meters
Tracking dog required? No.
Spotted facing head on, deer turned to face broadside, slightly uphill, so the bullet was aimed for the high chest. Deer dropped to the shot and expired quickly. Bullet expanded well, hitting ribs on entry and exit, damage to internal organs was effective.
No wonder the yearling dropped on the spot. But nice to see the expansion of that bullet at such a distance, potentially due to the shoulder/spine hit, would be interesting to see how the ttsx performs at similar distances in a heart/lung/rear lung hit as well
Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
Just shot a hind and calf this morning with my .300 WSM with 150 TTSX (velocity 3342 FPS) the calf was broadside at 198m, the calf dropped to the shot, the hind ran another 40-50m then stopped and presented a quartering away shot at around 240-250m which was taken, she then ran around 5m uphill and collapsed. Shown are pictures of the gralloch and the inside of the carcass back at the larder. (These will be on two separate replies so as to be clear what corresponds to what)
Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
The calf first:
The heart was shredded.
Shot distance: 198m
Approx. Terminal velocity: 2826 FPS
The heart was shredded.
Shot distance: 198m
Approx. Terminal velocity: 2826 FPS
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Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
Now the hind:
As you can see from the second image it was a reasonably quartering shot, it has made a good job of the lungs and nicked the top of the heart.
Shot distance: 240-250m
Estimated Terminal velocity: 2696FPS
As you can see from the second image it was a reasonably quartering shot, it has made a good job of the lungs and nicked the top of the heart.
Shot distance: 240-250m
Estimated Terminal velocity: 2696FPS
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Attached pic is from a sika stag killed last week. .308 130g TTSX @3000fps. Bullet went into the low neck collapsing it on the spot, it was sat under the skin mid rib cage. I’ll be weighing it when I see a certain vet friend of mine 
. My guess is 125g. I killed 4 red stags and 1 sika stag and none went far, contributing to my general satisfaction with TTSX both in 6.5 and .308-provided certain parameters are met.
. My guess is 125g. I killed 4 red stags and 1 sika stag and none went far, contributing to my general satisfaction with TTSX both in 6.5 and .308-provided certain parameters are met.
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