The future is electric

[Bavarianbrit]

It will be interesting to see how long they can survive as ICEs seem to get dumped around 170K miles. the motors themselves must be good for many more miles and with so many fewer bits to need regular replacing. My thought/worry is of all the electronics getting surface corrosion and breaking down in a cars environment of going from hot, cold, condensation icy. These electronics are not embedded in resin they are just in clip together plastic boxes so no real protection.

 

[Apthorpe]

It will be interesting to see how long they can survive as ICEs seem to get dumped around 170K miles. the motors themselves must be good for many more miles and with so many fewer bits to need regular replacing. My thought/worry is of all the electronics getting surface corrosion and breaking down in a cars environment of going from hot, cold, condensation icy. These electronics are not embedded in resin they are just in clip together plastic boxes so no real protection.

This will be the thing. As with ICE cars, if batteries or other expensive components ever need replacing, that will kill off the car economically. It seems likely that more of the parts will remain proprietary for EVs and generic parts unavailable.
I'm sure EVs may well be capable of a million miles, and ICE cars have been for over 50 years, but as you say the wear and tear of real life, depreciation and economics put the lid on most cars far, far sooner. Not to mention the newer model becoming a more attractive prospect.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

My pal just sent me this video from German tv 07.12.2021 it seems a Tesla 3 was hammering along a wooded road?? when it crashed it blew apart like the first responders had never seen before.

 

[Apthorpe]

My pal just sent me this video from German tv 07.12.2021 it seems a Tesla 3 was hammering along a wooded road?? when it crashed it blew apart like the first responders had never seen before.

Something fishy about that. I think a VW engineer and a Mercedes engineer were hiding in the forest with a can of oil and a rocket launcher. You know the old saying....if you can't beat them, blow them up.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

It was in Brandenburg state where the new Tesla model Y factory is coming on line soon so maybe unhappy radicals with dug up panzerfausts are out there.

 

[JTO]

What's the secondhand price of an EV with 100,000 on the clock?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Maybe none have reached it yet. All are still waiting at the charging points.

 

[mealiejimmy]

It will be interesting to see how long they can survive as ICEs seem to get dumped around 170K miles. the motors themselves must be good for many more miles and with so many fewer bits to need regular replacing. My thought/worry is of all the electronics getting surface corrosion and breaking down in a cars environment of going from hot, cold, condensation icy. These electronics are not embedded in resin they are just in clip together plastic boxes so no real protection.

I'd make the fllowing points:
1. ICE cars have loads of electronics in them and they, in general don't suffer from problems with heat, cold, condensation etc
2. OK, evs have electronics that run at much higher voltages than ICE vehicles but this video shows the power electronics of a VW ID and I don't see any plastic boxes, rather I see well engineered housings specifically designed for the task in hand
3. The Tesla model S has been in production since around 2012 and there are few, if any reports of the power electronics failing because of corrosion on the circuit boards or connectors.
Also, even when an ev reaches the end of it's life, the battery pack can be repurposed for static energy storage, and the rest of the vehicle disposed of in the same way as ICE vehicles - and of course that disposal process would not have to deal engine oil.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[mealiejimmy]

What's the secondhand price of an EV with 100,000 on the clock?

Is buying a high-mileage electric car a safe bet?

A reader's budget only stretches to a high-mileage secondhand electric car. Should she be worried about it developing costly faults?

www.whatcar.com

Depends on the model and how it has been used (which is the same as what might b said for an ICE vehicle)
I probably wouldn't buy a Nissan Leaf with 100k on the clock, but I'd might well buy a Tesla with 100k on the clock.
In simple terms, evs with large battery packs (and hence longer range) will have undergone fewer charge/discharge cycles for a given mileage than a car with a smaller battery pack.
Also, if an ev has been predominantly charged from a home charger (typically 7kw) it's battery is likely to be in better condition that an ev which has predominantly been charged on a rapid charger at 50kw or higher
All evs have (somewhere in their system) the ability to display the state of the battery so the level of degradation can be known, allowing potential buyers to decide if the level of degradation is or is not acceptable to them.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Apthorpe]

What's the secondhand price of an EV with 100,000 on the clock?

Currently on the market:
2014 Tesla Model S 100,000 miles. £33495. new price £57,300. Obviously unsold since the summer, so clear overpriced or unsellable.
2013 Nissan Leaf 92k miles. £5,500 Also unsold since the summer.
2016 Nissan Leak 92k miles £10,000 Also unsold since the summer.
2017 Tesla Model S Adertised as P90D, actually says 75D on it and vendor claims it's 85D and part of a "rare batch" where the manufacturer did something special. smells a bit fishy. 87,000 miles. £42,000 This one hasn't been on the market so long.

So apparently very few if any high mileage cars, and those few that exist aren't selling - at least not at the high prices advertised. One wonders why there is such a conspicuous absence of EVs that have done that mileage when for comparable ICE cars there is a much greater proportion of similar cars.

 

[kenbro]

Saw this today.
K.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Is buying a high-mileage electric car a safe bet?

A reader's budget only stretches to a high-mileage secondhand electric car. Should she be worried about it developing costly faults?

www.whatcar.com

Depends on the model and how it has been used (which is the same as what might b said for an ICE vehicle)
I probably wouldn't buy a Nissan Leaf with 100k on the clock, but I'd might well buy a Tesla with 100k on the clock.
In simple terms, evs with large battery packs (and hence longer range) will have undergone fewer charge/discharge cycles for a given mileage than a car with a smaller battery pack.
Also, if an ev has been predominantly charged from a home charger (typically 7kw) it's battery is likely to be in better condition that an ev which has predominantly been charged on a rapid charger at 50kw or higher
All evs have (somewhere in their system) the ability to display the state of the battery so the level of degradation can be known, allowing potential buyers to decide if the level of degradation is or is not acceptable to them.

Cheers

Bruce

1. ICE cars have loads of electronics in them and they, in general don't suffer from problems with heat, cold, condensation etc I Had a 2003 VW Phaeton 3.2 litre for 4 years, biggest load of rubbish ever, the electronics were always going on the blink and no VW service centre could get to the bottom of it. Gave up lost 2/3rds when I sold it. Will never touch a VW group product again.

 

[mealiejimmy]

I stand by my statement.
You had one car that gave you electronic problems - how many have you had that didn't give you any electronic problems?
I have had several cars that have never given me any electronic problems - but maybe that's because they were all Toyotas or Lexus

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Apthorpe]

I stand by my statement.
You had one car that gave you electronic problems - how many have you had that didn't give you any electronic problems?
I have had several cars that have never given me any electronic problems - but maybe that's because they were all Toyotas or Lexus

Cheers

Bruce

Or perhaps relatively new?

About 2/3 rds of the cars I've owned have had electronic problems - some mild, some expensive, some persistent. I think perhaps the problem will not be that things break any more often than an ICE car, I suspect they will break less often, but that the cost of putting faults right will be much higher and the customer choice much narrower and perhaps zero - leaving them hostage to monopolies.
The battery pack problem is not so much that we know how degraded it is at purchase, it's that we don't know if and when it will go downhill faster or fail completely. It's that we don't know how much it will cost to replace. It's a plus that old batteries can be remanufactured for static energy storage, but nobody is proposing that the bulk of that value will be returned to the car owner. And of course, those batteries are not available for recycling, and we know there's a potentially seriously limiting squeeze on raw materials for batteries, so that strategy may not be in the car owner's best interest either. Some of these doubts could be assuaged if the manufacturers would tell the customers the truth.

 

[JTO]

Is buying a high-mileage electric car a safe bet?

A reader's budget only stretches to a high-mileage secondhand electric car. Should she be worried about it developing costly faults?

www.whatcar.com

Depends on the model and how it has been used (which is the same as what might b said for an ICE vehicle)
I probably wouldn't buy a Nissan Leaf with 100k on the clock, but I'd might well buy a Tesla with 100k on the clock.
In simple terms, evs with large battery packs (and hence longer range) will have undergone fewer charge/discharge cycles for a given mileage than a car with a smaller battery pack.
Also, if an ev has been predominantly charged from a home charger (typically 7kw) it's battery is likely to be in better condition that an ev which has predominantly been charged on a rapid charger at 50kw or higher
All evs have (somewhere in their system) the ability to display the state of the battery so the level of degradation can be known, allowing potential buyers to decide if the level of degradation is or is not acceptable to them.

Cheers

Bruce

So how much have you been offered for yours?

 

[JTO]

After a 200 mile round trip, how long will a 7KW home charger take to replenish what has been used?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I stand by my statement.
You had one car that gave you electronic problems - how many have you had that didn't give you any electronic problems?
I have had several cars that have never given me any electronic problems - but maybe that's because they were all Toyotas or Lexus

Cheers

Bruce

The Phaeton was the first car I ever bought that was full of the stuff. I had at the same time ran a Hyundai Terracan I used it for 11 years sold it at 275K kms 6 years ago to my mate and he is still using it must be at 350K now and he loves it, the original exhaust has still not rusted through. Then my last one was a Tata Xenon with almost zero electronics, sadly have now had to buy one with all the whistles 2018 my owned for a year so far so good but as it is a made in Japan Subaru Impreza I am crossing my fingers.

 

[mealiejimmy]

So how much have you been offered for yours?

Did I say I was selling?

Cheers

Bruce

 

[mealiejimmy]

After a 200 mile round trip, how long will a 7KW home charger take to replenish what has been used?

It's not difficult to figure out
If the car does 4 miles per kwh (a reasonable figure) then a 200 mile round trip will use 50kwh of battery energy
Using a 7kw home charger (and allowing a bit for charging losses) it would take approx 8 hours to replace the energy used on the journey.
In other words, a single overnight charge would have the battery fully charged and ready to do another 200 mile round trip the following day
If the car does 3 miles per kwh it will take about 10 hours to charge (still an single overnight charge) and if the car does 5 miles per kwh it will take about 6 hours to charge

Cheers

Bruce

 

[JTO]

Did I say I was selling?

Cheers

Bruce

What model have you got?