Thermal imager hunt and cull video, fair chase or not?

[Mr lead free]

Thermals imagers are powerful tools but are they just too much? Don't get me wrong it's a good video again from the stalker but there's no way anyone could have seen and stalked the deer he went after. Lots of people saying thermals remove skill from stalking but I wouldn't have gone after the deer in the video.

 

[SussexSteve]

If he stalks full time and has huge numbers to cull I don't see why he wouldn't use thermal. If your a Sunday stroller Ive no doubt it will spoil the experience unless your just out to kill a deer

 

[slider]

There is recreational stalking and crop/habitat/RTA protection, two different things with different needs.
Additional the ever increasing deer population in the UK suggests there very much is a need to find deer more easily

 

[paulbshooting]

It's just another tool to use like quad sticks, high seats etc. Every stalker can decide if to use or not.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Thermals are a tool, that do require skill to use. They don’t act as a deer radar, even a small branch can very nicely block a full deer out of sight.

I personally won’t stalk without one because I’m 99% of the time on commercial forestry or in areas with very high cull targets.

The thermal can actually make you stalk more however as you’ll see a deer much further off and then have to plan a full approach into it.

I think it’s a misconception that they’re cheating, because they don’t guarantee anything, they just make seeing them a bit easier. It’s up to the individual to decide if it’s something they need to use or want to use at the end of the day.

Ben

 

[John Gryphon]

quad sticks, high seats

They will never show the hunter where a deer is.

 

[Mr lead free]

They will never show the hunter where a deer is.

reminds me of a 5 acre grassy field near Thetford where I worked surrounded by woodland with the road on on side and woodland the other side with a highseat on the only big mature tree at one end of the field draped in camo net. One morning driving past there was a couple of pickups drove in and looked like 3 or so reds dead at one corner that had been probably shot from the highseat. I thought at the time that was this was a great result and well done but then later I sort of hated it because the deer had walked out onto a flat open field with no cover to feed. Compared to roe up in the hills of Scotland it seems using a thermal to find deer there was quite a bit more sporting that this to say the least.

 

[alberta boy]

Not even an argument here , they're illegal to use while hunting , along with suppressors , dogs , drones or being in an aircraft the same day you hunt .............. and you have to wear Argyll socks on Wednesdays .

AB

 

[Erik Hamburger]

The title of the thread is already problematic: Why would it be 'fair' to use a rifle to hunt deer?
There is nothing 'fair' about it, and it is not 'sporting' either.
'Fair' or 'sporting' would be to run after them with a pointed stick, and drive them over a cliff.
However, like many on this Forum I have an obligation to landowners who have been so kind to grant me a permission, and obligation to cull a certain amount of deer each year. Any legal tool that helps me do so efficiently and that is at my disposal I will use. That includes a rifle, and a thermal viewer.

 

[Husky]

If you spotted the deer at 850 yards with binos then planed your stalk, would that be considered unfair ?

 

[spandit]

Is using a telescopic sight "fair"? I think if you are looking for the skill in stalking deer, go out with just a camera and get as close as you can. If you are in the business of killing deer, give yourself every legal advantage. Being able to see if deer are nearby but obscured by thin brush would be very useful, especially if you are sitting frustrated waiting for them. Finding a still warm carcass from one that ran off once shot would be very useful too. I'm fortunate that none of the few I've shot have run very far, if at all. For the amount of shooting I do, I can't really justify the cost of thermal although I'm sure there are many who don't really have a valid argument as to why they "need" a Blaser either

 

[muddy42]

Not another "is a thermal spotter fair" thread! Its a tool the same as a rifle or binoculars. Use it or don't, its up to you to decide.

What I would say is that I don't think I would have seen the deer in the video with simply binos. They are also not perfect, it looked like a wet misty evening in the video, if there was much more water around, a thermal would be pretty much useless compared to binos.

 

[Jon P]

Assume he is a full time stalker as in this video he says he has a license to take roe bucks all year due to damage they causing, thermal is just another tool to do the job efficiently.

 

[Gary123]

I saw the vid on FB, he stalks 300 days a year apparently so I’d say it’s a paid job or he’s got a great life

 

[Camdig]

I used to think thermals were cheating for deer and foxing but soon came round to them when actually using them in the field.
Il pretty much use my thermal as in this video spotting from distance and if your time is limited they are great for checking open areas and edges of cover.
Still not fool proof bumped loads of deer that were lying in cover or hollows on way to intended target.

 

[Stringer]

Not another "is a thermal spotter fair" thread! Its a tool the same as a rifle or binoculars. Use it or don't, its up to you to decide.

What I would say is that I don't think I would have seen the deer in the video with simply binos. They are also not perfect, it looked like a wet misty evening in the video, if there was much more water around, a thermal would be pretty much useless compared to binos.

I have been able to see deer at shootable ranges through thermal but not binos or scope. Very frustrating.

 

[shakey jake]

i think thermals are sort of cheating, they make sporting easy. but you still have to get within a sensible distance. i once stalked a black birds nest on a fallen tree, i was sure it was a muntys head above the log

 

[muddy42]

I have been able to see deer at shootable ranges through thermal but not binos or scope. Very frustrating.

Me too. I then end up in a complicated juggling act between binos and thermal that must look pretty ridiculous. If I can't see it through binoculars, I then pass as I am not comfortable waving the rifle around at something I haven't ID-ed and checked the backstop on.

 

[mudman]

All those saying it is just another technological advance like binoculars, scope, rifles themselves. Well it is but plus plus. It is a technological step change and a deer or any other quarry cannot adjust their behaviour to account for their major predator finding a new tool to pursue them with. Every other advancement they have found ways of minimising their impact, but I cannot conceive of a single way they prevent themselves being seen with thermal.

 

[muddy42]

All those saying it is just another technological advance like binoculars, scope, rifles themselves. Well it is but plus plus. It is a technological step change and a deer or any other quarry cannot adjust their behaviour to account for their major predator finding a new tool to pursue them with. Every other advancement they have found ways of minimising their impact, but I cannot conceive of a single way they prevent themselves being seen with thermal.

Maybe deer will evolve to be cold blooded.

Said in jest naturally.

Im not sure your argument matters given the aim is ‘management’ rather than extermination or survival of the human species by eating as many deer as possible.

Thermal could allow someone to over shoot deer, but it doesnt have to. Cull plans and numbers should stay the same, surely? All things being equal though, the Scottish government does want deer exterminated!