Uk Primer Supplies and Stock

Stuff the U.S. primers at those silly prices, what's wrong with these.
Finding S&B very good, have used in small pistol, small rifle and large rifle and they are giving good accuracy.

Although I think they are getting hard to come by now!
 
Finding S&B very good, have used in small pistol, small rifle and large rifle and they are giving good accuracy.

Although I think they are getting hard to come by now!
Yes I've always found S&B very good too.
Muron are another brand that were excellent for me.
 
Weirdly I was going to post exactly what you have said yesterday @8x57 after seeing how expensive CCI had become.
Anyone any experiences of the product below which is half the price of CCI just about?

Stuff the U.S. primers at those silly prices, what's wrong with these.
 
Weirdly I was going to post exactly what you have said yesterday @8x57 after seeing how expensive CCI had become.
Anyone any experiences of the product below which is half the price of CCI just about?
I think HK's own brand is the route I'll go down too. Supposed to be made in Bosnia and Herzegovina so likely same as used in PPI ammo. It would be good to hear from anyone with experience of them.
 
I went in a shop in Bolton today and asked if they had any Vhit. N133….sales person said, we should have we’ve just had a delivery today.
They had it and it cost me £88. Same price as Henry Kranks, but shorter drive for me.
Think the last one I bought about a month ago cost me £85+.
Ken.
Vhit. N140 at mates rate from my pals gunshop last week 119 Euros 1kg.
 
I think HK's own brand is the route I'll go down too. Supposed to be made in Bosnia and Herzegovina so likely same as used in PPI ammo. It would be good to hear from anyone with experience of them.
Using the HK small rifle primers in .17hornet and .223 no problems so far, prior to that used the murom primers again no problems, but think they can no longer import them from Russia, hence using the HK, from memory they were £39 per 1000 early last year.
 
I have found the Myron KVB-7 and CCI 200 are interchangeable in my loads which is handy.

There won't be any more Russian Murom primers arrive here for the foreseeable future. Thanks to Comrade Putin's military 'manoeuvres' on the Ukrainian borders, the import sanctions on these products are now being fully enforced.

S&B and CBC Magtech primers are both excellent, especially the CBC 7 1/2 SR version. During the last great primer drought some years back, Henry Krank imported a fair lot of Italian Fiocchi primers which work well, although I'd not rank them as highly as S&B / Magtech. Who know - these might turn up again.

At least we still get the western European and Brazilian products when available though. One reason for the dire state of supply in the USA is that allegedly something happened at the State Department regulatory level at the tail end of the Obama presidency that stopped the importation of all foreign primer brands. Whether this is actually true or not, Americans are now nearly 100% reliant on their domestic manufacturers for one reason or another. Then Remington went into administration in mid 2020 and shut its production down for many months, only recently reopening its factories.

On top of all that, primer manufacturers wherever situated have been hit by Covid disruption as badly as any other process industries that need long uninterrupted production runs.

On the brighter side, there have been recent reports of Expansion Industries reopening a former ammunition manufacturing plant in Texas as a dedicated primer manufacturing facility.

Expansion Industries Steps Up and Opens NEW Primer Production Facility
 
I called in to Glasgow angling center to see what primers they had. Local shop reckoned 2yrs for CCI 450's. They were £56 for 1000. Not bad at all.
However N140 was £98 a kilo
Then 6.5 143 eldx £67 a box 😱
 
@Laurie @saddler do you guys know where Radway Green get their poweder and primers from?


Nope, last time I heard RORG was using powder from a plant in Vermuiden, Netherlands - but that was years ago and that factory has long since closed like so many other explosives manufacturing facilities. I wouldn't be surprised if they regularly swap suppliers depending on the best deal their procurement people can negotiate. Since RORG stopped selling ammunition to even the NRA and deals only with government purchases I've not seen an RG 7.62 or 5.56 cartridge in years, so don't know if they load ball or extruded powders even.
 
@Laurie @saddler do you guys know where Radway Green get their poweder and primers from?
Not privy to that info., but based on the Frankford Arsenal scenario in the USA, they'll use whatever bulk powders the makers of such things can offer, swapping supplier as needs must. The big ammo plants tend to have a quite good relationship with such firms and can stipulate all sorts of minor tweaks to make sure that the powders from each firm have very similar burn rates. temperature stability, pressure spikes. density, etc.
I think the Yanks did learn from their hard lesson/FUBAR with the early issue M193 ammunition - cost a lot of lives that one!
 
Some Powder from belgium, same lot that make ramshot, but possibly also from any manufacture, no idea for primers.

That's Eurenco P B Clermont, the Belgian state powder factory (P=Poudre; B-Belge; Clermont is a town in Wallonia just down the road from the Liege area and its arms and ammunition factories), since privatised like all such surviving facilities. After WW2, P B Clermont bought the technology and manufacturing rights of ball powder manufacture from Olin Industries in the US, and has been researching and improving it ever since and is a leader in this field. Since most militaries prefer ball powders to the stick type, military ammunition manufacturers are a natural customer for this firm, so I'd expect RG among others to use it for at least some products. Eurenco is a French centred multinational.

Nammo Vihtavuori Oy must be another likely supplier as it's always had a good hold on this market, especially for 7.62 NATO. The Viht N135 we can buy is the canister version of Viht's bulk grade for the standard NATO 144-147gn ball round, and the company must have sold many thousands of tonnes of it over the years. When NATO was heavily involved in the Balkans followed by the US led alliance activities in Iraq and Afghanistan post 2001, Vihtavuori was riding high on military orders and Eurenco decided to cash in and buy the company .......... at quite the wrong time. After Gulf 2 and the post-Saddam debacle in Iraq saw western countries turn away from military adventurism in dangerous unpredictable places, they really slashed military spending, not helped by the financial and economic panics created by the 2008 financial industry collapse. The demand for military smallarms ammunition and the powders it burns collapsed. (According to the Daily Telegraph in a report last year, the Bundeswehr no longer has enough serviceable rifles to issue one to every serving soldier, and live firing training has been cut to near nil due to ammunition shortages - an extreme case, but not untypical over the last decade.) Eurenco put Viht up for sale, and was within an ace of closing it as there were no offers made, Nammo (Lapua owner among other things) fortunately coming in at the last minute, otherwise we - and western militaries - would really be in a mess.

The long and the short of the present primer / powder situation is that western countries have reduced military expenditure to minimum levels, (or many pundits say WAY below the minimum levels that common sense dictates), and as part of a greedily grasped and over-exploited 'peace dividend' now rely on globalised private industry to meet their needs, those same companies who supply civilian shooters - and moreover, governments won't pay for any excess 'strategic' capacity to be retained either. Meanwhile, US civilian demand for firearms, ammunition, and ammunition components has seen unprecedented growth over the last few years.

The Year the Second Amendment Strikes Back

"Retailer survey data approximates almost 6.2 million first-time gun owners." [In the US and in 2020 alone!!!]

Federal primers have largely disappeared for instance as the company now needs most of its output for its own ammunition production mainly to domestic American customers.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/12/08/primers-gone/

The USA no longer makes any extruded powder types at all, nor has it done so for a generation since DuPont Industries got out of the Business and IMR production moved to Canada. American powder companies buy in powders mostly from European suppliers, plus Thales / ADI in Australia. That's right, all those good ole American outfits that sell what we think of as 'American powders' buy them in from foreigners, much of it from factories thousands of miles from their packaging / distribution plants and whose supply chains are now crippled and bearing vast rate increases because of the worldwide shipping crisis.

For example:

ALL Alliant Reloder grades from Eurenco Bofors in Sweden or Nitrochemie Wimmins in Switzerland. Only the two or three Power-Pro grades are US, ball types from the former Olin plant in St. Marks, Florida

ALL Hodgdon brand stick powders are supplied by Thales / ADI in New South Wales, Australia

ALL IMR brand powders by General Dynamics in Canada bar a couple which are from Thales / ADI in Australia.

.......... and so on and so forth with many other examples including some European ball powders being imported such as P B Clermont grades sold as Ramshot powders.

This risks supply chain bottlenecks capping availability and restricting the flexibility needed to meet growth in demand, or demand spikes in what is potentially a highly volatile market. (Think what a small to medium size war does to demand!) The government level attitude is to run on minimum purchases and stocks - there's no risk after all since the end of the cold war (!!?) - and we don't need any domestic strategic production capacity as there will always be a supplier somewhere who'll supply us at short notice at low prices. Funny that, same attitude as HMG has had for a generation on energy supplies, and look where that's leading us now!

Outside of wartime and its accompanying emergency decrees overriding normal regulations, it is all too easy to close explosive factories, and hard to open or expand them given the health & safety and other regulatory hurdles allied to fierce public opposition these days to any factory handling dangerous and explosive materials, especially in overcrowded mainland Europe and the British Isles. These barriers to entry and / or expansion make increasing production capacity expensive too, so a company has to be sure it has a secure long-term market for additional output before it'll make large, risky investments.
 
I'm curious as to what people are finding as to availability and above inflationary price increases.

I was due to stock up on Remington primers, small rifle, large rifle and large magnums before Christmas when Henry Kranks had all three priced at £53.50 / 1000 but didn't have the small primers in stock, low and behold, as soon as the 7.5's came in their prices went to £73.50 / 1000, for all three aforementioned primers. Their excuse to my RFD being price increases from Remington and shipping.

I saw on McAvoy guns that I buy a lot of stuff from their limiting purchases to 1000 only.

Luckily I was able to source and stock up yesterday from a distant RFD, who also advised me that they'd been told they'll receive a limited CCI shipment next month, but not to expect anymore for the remaining year.

I've found the same for bullets (particularly Nosler Varmints), with most being out of stock.

There was a thread recently that said that Viht powder costs were due to increase, but haven't seen that hit the prices of tubs on the shelves yet.

Are my experiences global, or just from what prices I see online?
Well, the RFD had their CCI primer delivery of 17500 primers, but wait for it... £10 per 100, so £100/1000😳

So, as others have suggested more available, non mainstream primers will be sought by reloaders...
 
I called in to Glasgow angling center to see what primers they had. Local shop reckoned 2yrs for CCI 450's. They were £56 for 1000. Not bad at all.
However N140 was £98 a kilo
Then 6.5 143 eldx £67 a box 😱
That's 118.72 Euros then for N140.
 
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