Thanks for all the advice fellas really appreciate it
Thermal vs night vision
- Thread starter Tommy2bucks
- Start date
I've tried a considerable number of both NV and thermal scopes, and I still have to be convinced that the combination of thermal spotter and NV scope can be bettered. Thermal can be fine but there is still a question mark over 100% guaranteed identification at distances over the 100-yard mark.
I still find my Wraith HD does the job for me. Would I shoot more foxes with a thermal scope? I very much doubt it.
Having shot foxes from the days long before night vision and thermal was even thought of, it sometimes seems to me that today vast sums of money are spent getting not much better results!
Thermal is a real gamechanger for spotting, but even relatively inexpensive NV will allow you to shoot foxes out to sensible ranges, the whole point of NV as far as I'm concerned is to allow foxes to be killed at ranges certainly at a maximum of 200 yards.
I still find my Wraith HD does the job for me. Would I shoot more foxes with a thermal scope? I very much doubt it.
Having shot foxes from the days long before night vision and thermal was even thought of, it sometimes seems to me that today vast sums of money are spent getting not much better results!
Thermal is a real gamechanger for spotting, but even relatively inexpensive NV will allow you to shoot foxes out to sensible ranges, the whole point of NV as far as I'm concerned is to allow foxes to be killed at ranges certainly at a maximum of 200 yards.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
One whole week in to my Pulsar Axion2 35QS (I think!) and it is definitely a game changer but perhaps only if you use it correctly?
On three outings so far I have been astonished at the distances it picks up even the smallest of heat signatures (gosh - this thermal speak is easy) from mice through rats, sheep, cows etc…. - it really is an early warning system but, and it is a big but, I do not think it has sufficient picture clarity to 100% guarantee that what you see is what you think it is - the acid test would have to be would you take a shot based only on that sight picture? Coukd you honestly tell the difference between a fix and the farmer’s pet moggie? The answer is no and most definitely so. This is not to in any way diminish my view on this quite stunning piece of kit - it really is fantastic and does bring a whole new dimension and level of enjoyment to a night at the foxes. However for 100% identification and cognisant of my limited NV experience, the Pulsar 008P and a good IR is IMHO unbeatable. Used together I have already found the Axion and 008P to be an absolutely lethal combination - one to spot at quite crazy distances, without any detection by intended quarry, and the other to determine shootability and only when sure take the shot.
As above I am only one week in so with greater familiarity and more outings I may well revise this view but these are my honest thoughts thus far.
On three outings so far I have been astonished at the distances it picks up even the smallest of heat signatures (gosh - this thermal speak is easy) from mice through rats, sheep, cows etc…. - it really is an early warning system but, and it is a big but, I do not think it has sufficient picture clarity to 100% guarantee that what you see is what you think it is - the acid test would have to be would you take a shot based only on that sight picture? Coukd you honestly tell the difference between a fix and the farmer’s pet moggie? The answer is no and most definitely so. This is not to in any way diminish my view on this quite stunning piece of kit - it really is fantastic and does bring a whole new dimension and level of enjoyment to a night at the foxes. However for 100% identification and cognisant of my limited NV experience, the Pulsar 008P and a good IR is IMHO unbeatable. Used together I have already found the Axion and 008P to be an absolutely lethal combination - one to spot at quite crazy distances, without any detection by intended quarry, and the other to determine shootability and only when sure take the shot.
As above I am only one week in so with greater familiarity and more outings I may well revise this view but these are my honest thoughts thus far.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Use thermal enough and ID is pretty easy judging by the way things move .Nothing moves like a badger ,hare or fox and deer have necks .If I had the dosh I’d be on a thermal scope but poor old me has to struggle on with the pard 007 .Joking I love it .
Give it a few more outings and your appreciation of the thermal will grow The beauty of the scope is after you watch it come to the "shot on" zone - you are off the thermal spotter onto the scope and bang. There is no refocusing or adjusting its in my opinion just so clinicalOne whole week in to my Pulsar Axion2 35QS (I think!) and it is definitely a game changer but perhaps only if you use it correctly?
On three outings so far I have been astonished at the distances it picks up even the smallest of heat signatures (gosh - this thermal speak is easy) from mice through rats, sheep, cows etc…. - it really is an early warning system but, and it is a big but, I do not think it has sufficient picture clarity to 100% guarantee that what you see is what you think it is - the acid test would have to be would you take a shot based only on that sight picture? Coukd you honestly tell the difference between a fix and the farmer’s pet moggie? The answer is no and most definitely so. This is not to in any way diminish my view on this quite stunning piece of kit - it really is fantastic and does bring a whole new dimension and level of enjoyment to a night at the foxes. However for 100% identification and cognisant of my limited NV experience, the Pulsar 008P and a good IR is IMHO unbeatable. Used together I have already found the Axion and 008P to be an absolutely lethal combination - one to spot at quite crazy distances, without any detection by intended quarry, and the other to determine shootability and only when sure take the shot.
As above I am only one week in so with greater familiarity and more outings I may well revise this view but these are my honest thoughts thus far.
105 yards…it says on the pic.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
When I first started we were all over the place .Rats in hedgerows ,birds in bushes etc but now I’m pretty much 99.9% accurate as to what it is in the thermal .It’s like anything else in life ,the more you do the better you get .
One thing Id never do with a thermal scope this time of year is shoot foxes in the lambing fields
Thought it said that but pics not clear for 100 yds105 yards…it says on the pic.
Apparently it gets clearer as time goes on…Thought it said that but pics not clear for 100 yds
i use thermal and its quite simple.
if you cant 100% guarantee what it is, you dont take the shot.
the more you use thermal the better you get. if you know how a fox moves compared to a badger for example you can make them out no problem
if you cant 100% guarantee what it is, you dont take the shot.
the more you use thermal the better you get. if you know how a fox moves compared to a badger for example you can make them out no problem
One on top of two
Well-Known Member
This is just a screen shot from a video from my thermal scope .
I like your optimism gixerApparently it gets clearer as time goes on…
to be fair it’s probably a lot clearer when looking through the actual scope palIt really depends what the target beastie is doing - trotting across a flat open field is fine, walking in hag in a mounded plantation, standing still in a wood or walking through broom or heather and it gets more difficult. I have stood and watched foxes lay still for half an hour where you would be sure it was the shape of a badger.I like your optimism gixer
I’ve also seen someone looking at what they thought was a fox sitting on a wall that turned out to be a horses head above the wall!
Regards,
Gixer
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Aye, pretty much what I expect the process to be. I love the Axion already and would never go back to the lamp/torch or whatever.
Y
Also debated heat signatures in open fields, gone onto rifle waited and eventually fox stands.
no what you mean, watched fox move through drilled field with hares in, then lie in rut resting for long time , if not watched previously moving just like hare in seat through both spotter and thermal scope.
Also debated heat signatures in open fields, gone onto rifle waited and eventually fox stands.
Tommy,
A 38mm 17 Micron is an honest 150 yard foxing scope if you are being sensible and not relying on (how a blob moves), maybe 200 at very best in perfect conditions with a big moving fox on a very flat/short background. If you are going to limit yourself on performance then I would stick with the Wraith if it's doing what you need.
Thermal rifle scopes can give 100% ID at very long distance, but not ones with small lenses. It just won't have the resolution for what you are asking of it. It would be great on a rimfire or big centre fire for short range pigs though.
For a bit more money you can get a T-Ceptor PRO 55-3 that will get you out a very very long way and give you proper target ID and detail.
This video gives a rough idea with foxes from 450, down to around 100 yards. All easy enough to ID as foxes, even with the major degradation of the video, compared to the actual view through the scope:
I wouldn't use NV now. If you choose right, then thermal is massively better. No IR's or knobs and buttons to have to fiddle with. Super compact and self contained and works in all conditions, rain, fog, mist, though hedges and standing crops, etc. But you have to choose right or you will be limiting your range and ID ability which can then lead to frustration / mistakes.
Cheers
Clive
Funny thing, agree with all you say and use your mighty fine 75-3 thermal scope which would not be without, but now and again at harvest the old tubed gen 2+ is a pleasure to use, thermal for me when things count.
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