Mauser reintroducing the 7x57 in several of it's rifles for the 130th anniversary of the cartridge.

[Scipio]

I suggest looking for a 1950s era BSA in 7x57 as they have cut rifled hand-lapped barrels and are affordable. Mine cost less than £300 and was hardly used.

Hello again mate

And Thanks for the tip. If i hadnt just bought the Mauser Schultz Larsen in the 6.5x57 Mauser, so a kissing cousin so to speak, i might indeed have done that. The Scultz Larsen Barrels are hand lapped too i believe, and so is the one on my 7x57 i suspect
But between the Mannlicher in 7x57 and the 6.5x57 S and L, i think i am good for now, and will spend my hunting/guns budget on getting good at reloading and exploring my 2 rifles that way, whilst getting out stalking as much as possible too.

Due to Danish law i have to get into non lead though, do you by any chance shoot that in your x57?

 

[Scipio]

Saying all the above, whilst you can bullets at 2850 fps, it still performs very well at 2650 fps, and in truth doesn’t make a huge difference to point blank range. To some extent if you don’t need the extra horsepower why put the extra strain.

I like to treat mechanical machines with an element of sympathy - especially older machines.

And those Mannlicher GKs were expensive rifles when new. They were generally bought by gentlemen and ladies for sporting shooting, rather being a high volume deer control type rifle - that was the job of BSA’s, Parker Hales etc. So generally they will not have had a lot of ammo through them. I know of one that the lady bought new 50 years ago, she has shot a few bucks and stags every year with it, with a few test shots before going to the hill. Its probably fired 10, maybe 20 rounds a year.

Hello again Heym, Yes indeed, some more good points, and the mannlicher did seem almost mint in terms of wear on the stock and so on. It mainly shows some wear on the blueing, but seems scarcely used besides that.
Same thing with the Schultz Larsen Mauser 6.5.

As for speed in the 7x57, speed is not at all my objective, finding a good accurate load, which is pleasent to shoot and that i shoot well with a good bullet is.. Again i shall likely end up using it with iron sights mainly, so i shall not be shooting long distances with it, and do not need to squeeze out more umph.
Hunting distances in scandinavia are rarely above 200 meters anyways, so i am not sure that push for that last bit of velocity or going for super high bc bullets makes much sense in our hunting enviroment really.

 

[Heym SR20]

Hello again mate

And Thanks for the tip. If i hadnt just bought the Mauser Schultz Larsen in the 6.5x57 Mauser, so a kissing cousin so to speak, i might indeed have done that. The Scultz Larsen Barrels are hand lapped too i believe, and so is the one on my 7x57 i suspect
But between the Mannlicher in 7x57 and the 6.5x57 S and L, i think i am good for now, and will spend my hunting/guns budget on getting good at reloading and exploring my 2 rifles that way, whilst getting out stalking as much as possible too.

Due to Danish law i have to get into non lead though, do you by any chance shoot that in your x57?

Picture says it all. Most deer drop on the spot, furthest any has run is 20m and that was because it was already running. I have shot foxes, roe, red and boar with this bullet. Complete penetration, minimal meat damage.

 

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View attachment 264734

Picture says it all. Most deer drop on the spot, furthest any has run is 20m and that was because it was already running. I have shot foxes, roe, red and boar with this bullet. Complete penetration, minimal meat damage.

Hey again Heym, niiice! You also use the sonic fragmenting ones, right?

I might well just buy a batch of fox and sonic, and see what works best for me in the field, adjusting bullet weight and poa as needed to the bullet type.

 

[Heym SR20]

Hello again Heym, Yes indeed, some more good points, and the mannlicher did seem almost mint in terms of wear on the stock and so on. It mainly shows some wear on the blueing, but seems scarcely used besides that.
Same thing with the Schultz Larsen Mauser 6.5.

As for speed in the 7x57, speed is not at all my objective, finding a good accurate load, which is pleasent to shoot and that i shoot well with a good bullet is.. Again i shall likely end up using it with iron sights mainly, so i shall not be shooting long distances with it, and do not need to squeeze out more umph.
Hunting distances in scandinavia are rarely above 200 meters.

And nowt wrong with open sights - yes there will be plenty who say you need a 6 - 30x72mm Scope to shoot a deer, and will carry lots of scaffolding to support all this. But there is nothing nicer to carry than open sighted Mannlicher through the woods or the bush. My Pa had one as a young man in Africa as snd mostly used it to shoot Spurwing geese and crocs - all with open sights.

 

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And nowt wrong with open sights - yes there will be plenty who say you need a 6 - 30x72mm Scope to shoot a deer, and will carry lots of scaffolding to support all this. But there is nothing nicer to carry than open sighted Mannlicher through the woods or the bush. My Pa had one as a young man in Africa as snd mostly used it to shoot Spurwing geese and crocs - all with open sights.

That is exactly what my intention is I'll use the scoped 6.5 for hunting where i anticipate longer shots
In general staying as minimalist as possible to still hunt effectively, whilst taking pleasure in doing it, is what fascinates me at current. So buying more and more equipment, or trying to shoot animals from further and further away is not my thing, quite the opposite really.

 

[Heym SR20]

Hey again Heym, niiice! You also use the sonic fragmenting ones, right?

I might well just buy a batch of fox and sonic, and see what works best for me in the field, adjusting bullet weight and poa as needed to the bullet type.

Nope - just the Fox, the RWS HIT and the Peregrine. They are not fragmenting, but have a large hole down the front under a tip. Never felt the need fir a fragmenting design - they all kill very well and why cause unnecessary damage to carcass if you don’t need to.

 

[Scipio]

Nope - just the Fox, the RWS HIT and the Peregrine. They are not fragmenting, but have a large hole down the front under a tip. Never felt the need fir a fragmenting design - they all kill very well and why cause unnecessary damage to carcass if you don’t need to.

aha, ok, i thought you also had some experience with the fragmenting design. Yes, i too am not entirely sure about the petal frarmenting design either, for the same reason, but then again people do not seem to report this being a significant issue, and the only way to find out is to put them to use in the field.
The fox are on my shopping list though, as they are easier to get than the peregrine where i live.

 

[Klenchblaize]

If Mauser wished to celebrate their anniversary in style they should have designed a new proprietary cartridge, for the 21st Century, and with both funky numbering & name.

K

 

[JockStalk]

If Mauser wished to celebrate their anniversary in style they should have designed a new proprietary cartridge, for the 21st Century, and with both funky numbering & name.

K

As per previous, may I introduce you to the 7x57CM

 

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haha, you guys!! ,D

 

[HandB]

Hello again mate

And Thanks for the tip. If i hadnt just bought the Mauser Schultz Larsen in the 6.5x57 Mauser, so a kissing cousin so to speak, i might indeed have done that. The Scultz Larsen Barrels are hand lapped too i believe, and so is the one on my 7x57 i suspect
But between the Mannlicher in 7x57 and the 6.5x57 S and L, i think i am good for now, and will spend my hunting/guns budget on getting good at reloading and exploring my 2 rifles that way, whilst getting out stalking as much as possible too.

Due to Danish law i have to get into non lead though, do you by any chance shoot that in your x57?

I haven't shot non-lead bullets in my BSA but I have shot 160gr Sierra Tipped Matchkings which are super long and they stabilise fine.

 

[Scipio]

I haven't shot non-lead bullets in my BSA but I have shot 160gr Sierra Tipped Matchkings which are super long and they stabilise fine.

Good to hear Btw, after your comment, i had a look and actually found some older bsa rifles for sale in Denmark, including in 7x57......i had to fight the urge to buy quite strongly.

 

[Heym SR20]

@Scipius with a 7x57 and a 6.5x57 you are going to have to be very careful not to mix up ammo. Not sure if either will chamber in the other and be able to fire,

But it will not take much to mix them up and you only find you have the wrong ammo when you are out in the woods far from home.

And becomes more of a problem as your eyes get older. I have picked up 243 thinking its 7x57 before.

My suggestion would be to have two very different types of bullets used in each. Eg the cone pointed Fox in the 7x57 and a sleek pointy Barnes / Peregrine etc for the 6.5x57.

 

[Scipio]

@Scipius with a 7x57 and a 6.5x57 you are going to have to be very careful not to mix up ammo. Not sure if either will chamber in the other and be able to fire,

But it will not take much to mix them up and you only find you have the wrong ammo when you are out in the woods far from home.

And becomes more of a problem as your eyes get older. I have picked up 243 thinking its 7x57 before.

My suggestion would be to have two very different types of bullets used in each. Eg the cone pointed Fox in the 7x57 and a sleek pointy Barnes / Peregrine etc for the 6.5x57.

Hey Heym and thank you for yet more practical advice, - Yep, that is Great point!!

I had actually had the very same thought, and was exactly thinking going for the 130 grn fox for the 7x57, and the peregrine vrg4 for the 6.5, (i havnt decided on weight yet), as that would make more sense with the rifles intended use, as well as provide that visual difference.
I think i have also seen some reloaders use a specific color of magic marker on the brass of one of the cartridges that they reload for , to exact avoid mixing up two different but similarly looking cartridges that they reload for.
But yeah, better safe than sorry, and the use of differently shaped bullets is also a very good idea.
It just seems getting the peregrines in Denmark wont be that easy, but i think it should be possible getting them shipped in from Germany, if it comes to that.
But if i dont do go that way, i shall be employing another system to avoid mix ups, as that is of course a matter of real importance.

 

[JockStalk]

120gr TTSX are working well in my 7x57. The coppers work well with a slightly lighter, faster bullet - expand well. LRX are also getting a try,

 

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120gr TTSX are working well in my 7x57. The coppers work well with a slightly lighter, faster bullet - expand well. LRX are also getting a try,

cheers for the input mate, - another reason for people to celebrate the old sevens birthday, and pick up one ,D

 

[harrygrey382]

That’s a pretty accurate set up Heym, very nice. An increase in the awareness and popularity of 7x57 would be great especially for brass and factory ammo choice and availability.

Going back to the throats discussed earlier - on the barrel I had made recently I was concerned about the throat being too short to seat 175gr RN quite a way out (might as well be able to use the 98 mag box). They only had a SAAMI reamer but offered to custom throat it. I sent a dummy with a 175gr RN as far out as could be loaded and the SAAMI throat was still longer. Where do the short throats come in?

 

[Heym SR20]

That’s a pretty accurate set up Heym, very nice. An increase in the awareness and popularity of 7x57 would be great especially for brass and factory ammo choice and availability.

Going back to the throats discussed earlier - on the barrel I had made recently I was concerned about the throat being too short to seat 175gr RN quite a way out (might as well be able to use the 98 mag box). They only had a SAAMI reamer but offered to custom throat it. I sent a dummy with a 175gr RN as far out as could be loaded and the SAAMI throat was still longer. Where do the short throats come in?

I don’t really know to be honest. But if you look at the CIP cartridge drawings for the 7x57 and the 275 Rigby HV you will see that angle from the end of the cartridge mouth to start of the rifling is steeper in the 275 suggesting that it has less lead than the 7x57.

The original 7x57 was a 173gn Roundnose bullet, which was what it gained it’s fierce some reputation in the hands of Boers and also what Bell used in elephants.

But Rigby produced a 140gn HV load for use on deer sized animals. But Bell used a Rigby with long Solids.

CIP - Homologation

bobp.cip-bobp.org

In this article it talks about a 275 No2 HV with 140gn at 3000 fps introduced in 1924

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/rigby-a-brief-history

So I suppose that there were customers and makers who thought that if you were not going to use the long 173 gn why have the long lead, and there was and is a school of thought that for best accuracy the bullet must kiss the lands. Yet others - the Weatherby’s in particular- have long throats to allow velocities to build up before bullet engages the rifling.

However I do possess a Rigby made in the 1970’s. It is labelled 275 High Velocity, but I can confirm that it is happy with pretty much any bullet and at a hundred metres I can take mixed bag of lots of different loads and bullets weights and they will go into the same 3 or 4” circle with the same point of aim. It is a very forgiving and unfussy calibre.

 

[Scipio]

That’s a pretty accurate set up Heym, very nice. An increase in the awareness and popularity of 7x57 would be great especially for brass and factory ammo choice and availability.

Going back to the throats discussed earlier - on the barrel I had made recently I was concerned about the throat being too short to seat 175gr RN quite a way out (might as well be able to use the 98 mag box). They only had a SAAMI reamer but offered to custom throat it. I sent a dummy with a 175gr RN as far out as could be loaded and the SAAMI throat was still longer. Where do the short throats come in?

Indeed

I believe some american made 7x57s can have shorter throats, perhaps upon request. But these were made before the modern (ever stronger) growing push towards non lead, so they might go back to the longer throats in the future, i suppose.
But as i read the america gun writer, who himself uses the x57 quite a bit, it isnt so much short vs long throats that's the problem, is that there can be found a good bit of variance even between longer throated rifles.

But as Heym said, if you're tailor making your loads anyways in the right way, it probably holds little importance. If you want a cartridge where the chance of using someones elses load recipe with quicker and more frequent success , a cartridge with less variance on this area is perhaps better. But again i dont hold vast relaoding experience, in fact i am only getting started. This is just what i picked up when ressearching reloading the 7x57, prior to that.

EDIT: John Barsness is the name of the 7x57 using gunwriter i have mentioned in this thread. He posts as Muledeer over on 24hrcampfie , i believe, and has written several articles and posts on the old 7, and on reloading for it, including the throat factor.

Nathan Foster on his 7x57 page, also mentions the variating throat lengths that one can experience with 7x57s, and the effect it can have on muzzle velocities.