Indefensible ! Police Tazer 93 yr Old Man.

[camodog]

What and under what circumstances could this ever be considered 'reasonable' ? This poor man had dementia, was wheelchair bound and had only one leg ! Yes, he was 'waving a knife around', but I doubt that in a care home setting this would unlikely to have been a machete, more likely a 'cutlery item' ! Two policemen have been suspended. What in their training ever led them to believe this was an appropriate response ? On the face of it I am sickened by their actions ! Furthermore, what was the care home doing calling the police for an incident such as this ?

 

[saddler]

...is that rule that a fatality within a year of a physical assault is classed as murder/manslaughter still a thing?

Given the physical state of the bloke, isolation/distance or a set of stairs = ZERO risk of anyone being hurt aside from himself.
Off to Ladbokes to see what the odds are of "no charges to face" being the outcome....

 

[finnbear270]

What's gone on then?

 

[Jagare]

They not only tazered him but first pepper sprayed him and struck him with a button.
Big brave police. I'm 73 and don't doubt I would be able to disarm a one legged, wheelchair bound 93 year old with zero risk to my self without resorting to force.

 

[Bowland blades]

Because they were gutless cowards perhaps? There are a few great coppers but i fear today its a minority not a majority . A copper from the 70s would have likely used his heavy coat to solve any possibility of getting stuck , today ? apparently a 90 year old while your wearing a stab vest and paramilitary kit required
a tazer?
Another good reason not to bother calling 999

 

[Firefly]

What and under what circumstances could this ever be considered 'reasonable' ? This poor man had dementia, was wheelchair bound and had only one leg ! Yes, he was 'waving a knife around', but I doubt that in a care home setting this would unlikely to have been a machete, more likely a 'cutlery item' ! Two policemen have been suspended. What in their training ever led them to believe this was an appropriate response ? On the face of it I am sickened by their actions ! Furthermore, what was the care home doing calling the police for an incident such as this ?

Your last sentence would suggest this was more serious that it sounds. I’d wait until the facts are out before judgement.

 

[Bowland blades]

Your last sentence would suggest this was more serious that it sounds. I’d wait until the facts are out before judgement.

one leg , wheelchair bound 90 year old ? Bring me a bedsheet if anything not a tazer.

 

[Woodsmoke]

The police officers involved have been handed gross misconduct notices, and are under criminal investigation for manslaughter. What the hell type of recruiting criteria are deemed necessary for the police force these days, for this to be considered an appropriate response in any shape or form whatsoever? Utterly, utterly appalling

 

[Bowland blades]

The police officers involved have been handed gross misconduct notices, and are under criminal investigation for manslaughter. What the hell type of recruiting criteria are deemed necessary for the police force these days, for this to be considered an appropriate response in any shape or form whatsoever? Utterly, utterly appalling

Poor recruiting IMO exasperated by the past promotion of the wrong people .

 

[bobthedug]

one leg , wheelchair bound 90 year old ? Bring me a bedsheet if anything not a tazer.

I know absolutely nothing of the initial incident where the taser was deployed, therefor I will refrain from commenting on that.
What I can say though is that if the cop did indeed use a bedsheet as you suggest, he would not be commended for using his initiative. He is not trained in using one or issued with one and would be hauled over the coals as he has left himself open to litigation from the old ones family.
As a wee rider, many years ago my sister was a staff nurse in a palliative care ward. An patient in his 80s was an old thug and beat another patient into a pulp and used a knife to attack a relative and also my sister. When bladed weapons are involved, it’s game on.

 

[Firefly]

Because they were gutless cowards perhaps? There are a few great coppers but i fear today its a minority not a majority . A copper from the 70s would have likely used his heavy coat to solve any possibility of getting stuck , today ? apparently a 90 year old while your wearing a stab vest and paramilitary kit required
a tazer?
Another good reason not to bother calling 999

one leg , wheelchair bound 90 year old ? Bring me a bedsheet if anything not a tazer.

The body worn camera footage will reveal all. So if they are accountable they will pay the price. Personally I will wait until the investigation is complete before I judge this. There are bad apples in every job, we shall find out eventually.

 

[Tagoat]

Utterly, utterly disgraceful. Whatever were the "caring-staff" ever thinking of making that phone call ffs??
( knives in a care home? Really?? A domestic cutlery knife most likely)

 

[NoIDeer]

I know absolutely nothing of the initial incident where the taser was deployed, therefor I will refrain from commenting on that.
What I can say though is that if the cop did indeed use a bedsheet as you suggest, he would not be commended for using his initiative. He is not trained in using one or issued with one and would be hauled over the coals as he has left himself open to litigation from the old ones family.
As a wee rider, many years ago my sister was a staff nurse in a palliative care ward. An patient in his 80s was an old thug and beat another patient into a pulp and used a knife to attack a relative and also my sister. When bladed weapons are involved, it’s game on.

If the two officers weren't trained to deal with a nonagenarian one legged demented man with a knife surely they should have isolated the situation and called in officers that were?

 

[bobthedug]

If the two officers weren't trained to deal with a nonagenarian one legged demented man with a knife surely they should have isolated the situation and called in officers that were?

Thing is, they are trained to deal with it unless it was a hostage type situation or siege that required a trained negotiator.
I cannot comment on the taser use as I wasn’t there or know enough about the incident.
I’m not defending them in any way and I think I would struggle to sleep at night if I had used a taser on such a person unless it was a life or death situation. But that’s just me, typing away in the comfort of my armchair.

 

[Rewulf]

I’m not defending them in any way and I think I would struggle to sleep at night if I had used a taser on such a person unless it was a life or death situation. But that’s just me, typing away in the comfort of my armchair.

It was a life or death situation, the 93 year olds death.
Are they not trained to recognise the possibility of death in such an old person, when deploying a taser ?
Or is it 'game on' if he dies he dies ?

 

[bobthedug]

My “game on” was perhaps a poor choice of words but I meant that if if a knife is being wielded and an assault or attack ongoing, a taser may be justified. Again, I do not know anything of the incident being discussed.

 

[Rewulf]

My “game on” was perhaps a poor choice of words but I meant that if if a knife is being wielded and an assault or attack ongoing, a taser may be justified. Again, I do not know anything of the incident being discussed.

'Two arrived to find Donald Burgess, 93, who was confined to a wheelchair, holding a blade.

After talking with him briefly, one pepper-sprayed and used his baton on the elderly man while the second officer tasered him.

They disarmed Donald, who was a resident at a home in St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex, and handcuffed him.

He was taken to hospital for treatment but died on July 13, three weeks after the incident.'


As you say, these are the early reports, but it doesnt look good, especially as Ive heard he was contained within a room , so there was no immediate threat to life.
It will be interesting to find out what kind of knife it was.

 

[Pete1774]

What and under what circumstances could this ever be considered 'reasonable' ? This poor man had dementia, was wheelchair bound and had only one leg ! Yes, he was 'waving a knife around', but I doubt that in a care home setting this would unlikely to have been a machete, more likely a 'cutlery item' ! Two policemen have been suspended. What in their training ever led them to believe this was an appropriate response ? On the face of it I am sickened by their actions ! Furthermore, what was the care home doing calling the police for an incident such as this ?

I'm a retired Community Psychiatric Nurse who specialised in dementia as well as a former Special Constable. I was horrified at the account of what happened. Disgusted, not only with the police officers involved but with the so called "Care Home" who obviously employ untrained care staff. The police officers (qty 2) allegedly used pepper spray or similar, a Taser and a batton to disarm this 93 year old male. The BBC web site story said the man, who has dementia, was in a wheel chair, has one leg and was alone in his room with a kitchen knife. If the allegations turn out to be as stated on the BBC web site then there is no doubt in my mind that the police officers should be dismissed and the care home investigated by the CQC.

 

[David T]

I am staggered that officers trained to assess situations and deploy the appropriate strategies to bring situations to a end thought that beating and tasering an aging, wheelchair bound, one legged gent a proportionate response. The police do themselves no favours and I hope these officers have the book thrown at them. The more I think about this the more angry I become.

 

[TH4]

That is why your average copper should never be armed. If your only tool is a hammer all your problems become nails. Every week in my local paper there is an article about a different corrupt or violent police officer. Perhaps they should change their recruitment policy.