BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

[Jimbob39]

Not that old chestnut for the 10.000th time

Yep, that old chestnut. Basc change their target audience constantly! I’m all for it the way, once I’ve used up my lead supply I will move over, just object to being forced without sound reason.

 

[Dunwaters]

I am so fed up with the political horlicks that surrounds deer, herd species are out of control and need putting back in their tracks, gloves are off!

Someone meeds to man up and change the rules!

Popular with the stalking masses or not !

You’re right, its what we’re doing that’s responsible for the population increase. We’ve been treating deer as a scarce and valuable resource as the evidence builds that they’re actually not, they’re increasing and getting out of control.
Check out your afforestation plans, more habitat, more deer.
You need more people out shooting them until you get to the stage where about 30% of the population is being removed annually.
Maybe the basis of the problem is that there is no centralised policy and that deer are considered the perquisite of the landowner to control or not as they choose.
In other words the tradition of control of game on your ground is solely your concern and screw the neighbours needs to change.

 

[David Barker]

I am so fed up with the political horlicks that surrounds deer, herd species are out of control and need putting back in their tracks, gloves are off!

Someone meeds to man up and change the rules!

Popular with the stalking masses or not !

I understand your thoughts but unless you do it properly you will end up in the same position in 15 years time. Lessons must be learned from the disastrous efforts and plans put forward and implemented by FLS and the Scottish government. Population dynamics must be taken in to account and the correct animals cull. All the organizations are saying the same. If you want to lower the population you must target the Females. So opening the season on males will not help and will in fact hinder the process. Night shooting will only get you numbers it will not help. 32,000 deer shot by contractors alone on FLS ground year on year for the last 15 years night shooting use of thermals open seasons on males extended seasons on females. (Failed)

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I understand your thoughts but unless you do it properly you will end up in the same position in 15 years time. Lessons must be learned from the disastrous efforts and plans put forward and implemented by FLS and the Scottish government. Population dynamics must be taken in to account and the correct animals cull. All the organizations are saying the same. If you want to lower the population you must target the Females. So opening the season on males will not help and will in fact hinder the process. Night shooting will only get you numbers it will not help. 32,000 deer shot by contractors alone on FLS ground year on year for the last 15 years night shooting use of thermals open seasons on males extended seasons on females. (Failed)

Exactly!

I wouldnt care if the fully opened the season on females like muntjac!

In fact fully open the lot, lets crack on!

 

[Tim.243]

I understand your thoughts but unless you do it properly you will end up in the same position in 15 years time. Lessons must be learned from the disastrous efforts and plans put forward and implemented by FLS and the Scottish government. Population dynamics must be taken in to account and the correct animals cull. All the organizations are saying the same. If you want to lower the population you must target the Females. So opening the season on males will not help and will in fact hinder the process. Night shooting will only get you numbers it will not help. 32,000 deer shot by contractors alone on FLS ground year on year for the last 15 years night shooting use of thermals open seasons on males extended seasons on females. (Failed)

SD has 27k members, so take 20k away for excuses and location ,that leaves 7k, 3k for blanks trips so 1 deer per each person a week will make a big dent in the write up's

 

[foxhunter]

Night shooting will only get you numbers it will not help.

Please explain as I am at a loss. Surely getting numbers is helping or am I missing something.

Shooting numbers is better than shooting nothing seeing as the aim is to reduce the population.

 

[mudman]

Agreed. The people against night shooting obviously do no fox or rabbit control! If someone is an unsafe shot, it makes no odds if the target is a fox or deer! Deer need controlling, that is blatantly apparent, but an outlet for it is important or they will just be chucked in any available ditch causing more negative press than we already get! Perhaps basc would like to take this challenge on?

World of difference.. foxes are much lower to the ground. A deers head (and yes most night shooters will target the head) is what there, four, five feet off the ground? Changes back stop angles massively.

I spoke to BASC on an unrelated matter yesterday, and this consultation came up in discussion, and the rep let slip that already a lot of their insurance claims are related to night shooting, lack of quarry ID, lack of back stop etc. which themselves goes back to shooters not knowing the ground.

 

[Dunwaters]

I understand your thoughts but unless you do it properly you will end up in the same position in 15 years time. Lessons must be learned from the disastrous efforts and plans put forward and implemented by FLS and the Scottish government. Population dynamics must be taken in to account and the correct animals cull. All the organizations are saying the same. If you want to lower the population you must target the Females. So opening the season on males will not help and will in fact hinder the process. Night shooting will only get you numbers it will not help. 32,000 deer shot by contractors alone on FLS ground year on year for the last 15 years night shooting use of thermals open seasons on males extended seasons on females. (Failed)

Yes it will happen again once you stop, so you don’t. Theres nothing disastrous about the policies of FLS and the Scottish government, they’re reducing the deer population to a level commensurate with their afforestation aims. Once the new forests establish the deer will bounce back because there is more suitable habitat.
Your current deer population ( and ours) provides all the evidence you need that we need to change something and change it fast or it’ll be done for us.

 

[Bowland blades]

As i see it
20% of stalkers shoot 80% of the deer and that won't change
some landowners won't have the deer on their land touched
too many cooks spoil the broth
female deer are the key , so why lengthen the male deer seasons

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The key to the situation of controlling these bloody deer is open up the female season all year round!

You do that you will reduce the numbers massively but it will not be pretty to the limp wristed Stalker who doesn’t like shooting heavily pregnant deer!

nobody worries about the humble muntjac being pregnant or not or kid foot or not so what the hell does it matter to a red deer or a fallow, zero, zip , nothing is only fact that they are bigger that is it like I said before the gloves are off time to change the rules let’s crack on!

Opening up the seasons would certainly sort the men from the boys thats for sure!

 

[Klenchblaize]

Didn’t take them long - BDS to follow:

1. BASC is the primary provider of deer management training (we deliver 50% of all DSC levels 1 and 2 annually), so we have a key role to play in ensuring that the sector has the capacity to manage deer, both now and in the future.
2. BASC is keen to help deliver the required deer management across the country and will work with Defra and stakeholders to enable this.

K

 

[sikamalc]

Refreshing to see BASC making positive comments to the government proposals. I would hope that they work in tandem with BDS, who have the same views it seems.

Opening up the whole year to does is not ethical, and will cause a huge outcry from the general public. I can just see the newspaper headlines now, killers are allowed to shoot heavily pregnant female deer and their off spring all year round Yeah that will go down like a cold cup of sick!

There is no quick fix in my opinion to the overall deer numbers. Not whilst you have huge areas that are privately owned that will not allow deer to be culled, even small patches too that hold deer numbers.
Like I said, if the FC took their finger out and let areas out to be managed on a more reasonable basis, this would be a start. Especially near to me in West Sussex. Also with Fallow, its no good keep hammering them time and time again on the same area. They soon learn and bugger off to another area where their not shot so much, or not at all. Better to hit them hard and then leave for a while, then hit them again. Being on the same area all the time is much like being a scarecrow, deer are not that stupid.

 

[mudman]

The key to the situation of controlling these bloody deer is open up the female season all year round!

You do that you will reduce the numbers massively but it will not be pretty to the limp wristed Stalker who doesn’t like shooting heavily pregnant deer!

nobody worries about the humble muntjac being pregnant or not or kid foot or not so what the hell does it matter to a red deer or a fallow, zero, zip , nothing is only fact that they are bigger that is it like I said before the gloves are off time to change the rules let’s crack on!

Opening up the seasons would certainly sort the men from the boys thats for sure!

Among many other counter arguments the antis would have a field day if they knew we were leaving dependent young to starve.

 

[Bowland blades]

A heavily pregnant deer will have followers able to make it on their own or none at all if we do this right regards Reds, sika, fallow and roe. What better a beast to take ? That said there should be certain considerations like leaving unborn calves in the sack to slowly suffocate as i have seen done by poachers shooting from the roadside . The only time we need to be mindful is for that period where highly dependent young are coached up etc

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Among many other counter arguments the antis would have a field day if they knew we were leaving dependent young to starve.

How many muntjac dependants are left to starve a year?

No one cares or worries about them!

 

[JTO]

female deer are the key , so why lengthen the male deer seasons

Perhaps males, especially Roe, are thought to do more damage to trees.

 

[Bowland blades]

Perhaps males, especially Roe, are thought to do more damage to trees.

the main issue outside of commercial forestry that i deal with is over grazing that prevents natural re growth of native trees . Amazingly the experts tell me the trees and plants that have been absent for decades on end are still there ready to re- grow and they have been up testing and surveying.
Commerical Sitka are just about investment funds, crappy timber for construction and they are coming down. Not even that good as biomass a known grouth safe investment opportunity
Obviously different ground has different conservation goals though once a tree reaches a certain size its safe from deer only a windfarm development might threaten them LOL with a massive amount of co2 laden concreate , excavation of wet peat etc

 

[JTO]

the main issue outside of commercial forestry that i deal with is over grazing that prevents natural re growth of native trees . Amazingly the experts tell me the trees and plants that have been absent for decades on end are still there ready to re- grow and they have been up testing and surveying.
Commerical Sitka are just about investment funds, crappy timber for construction and they are coming down. Not even that good as biomass a known grouth safe investment opportunity
Obviously different ground has different conservation goals though once a tree reaches a certain size its safe from deer only a windfarm development might threaten them LOL with a massive amount of co2 laden concreate , excavation of wet peat etc

I expect it depends on who has the politicians' 'ears'.
Our climate is probably too mild to produce good construction timber.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Among many other counter arguments the antis would have a field day if they knew we were leaving dependent young to starve.

With respect they are already mobilising for a “field day” with this consultation. It’s what they do whenever the opportunity arises and will bend the narrative to support their prejudices.

It’s the same with those that champion a ban on the private ownership of all firearms and are not shrinking from using the tragic Liverpool shooting of a child to further their agenda.

K

 

[User00053]

On the ethics front no close season for many pest species fur or feather, caught in Larsen trap or shot.
Deer have now become just that and best thought of As one very large rabbit with same mindset as most pests.
Only reason for any outcry mainly the publics and others perception of deer in their psyche as opposed to a rodent.