BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

Conor O'Gorman

Well-Known Member
The government’s commitment to the issue is commendable, but the goal of a healthy, sustainable deer population will only be reached with the support of every deer manager, including those who manage deer on a voluntary, part-time basis and account for much of the annual cull.

BASC’s response will focus on ensuring any proposals taken forward make a meaningful difference and acknowledge the management practices that are already used.

BASC welcomes the proposals to incentivise deer management and introduce grants to help bolster the venison supply chain, but believes that for such incentives to succeed they must focus on the species and specific areas where there are known problems.

Deer should not be seen as a national problem. Any strategy taken forward must respect the role of deer in the countryside and the management already undertaken. We will not allow their status to be degraded or their welfare jeopardised.

BASC does not support the proposal to introduce mandatory minimum standards for all deer managers, as it will produce a barrier to entry where there is no evidence it is required.

 
Some stalkers like me have never done a DSC1/2 but have completed more shooting and new gralloching training to keep up with the times and also completed Humane dispatch with BDS.
 
Mandatory standards for deer cullers are all good. Training, certification & CPD are normal in most industries, along with Grandfather rights upon introduction. This activity is just the same. The evidence that it is required is that the status quo of the deer shooting community has failed to manage some species of deer (esp fallow) sustainably in many areas. Much of this lies at the lack of understanding by the landowner - but with training and certification, the deer culler is in a stronger position to influence the landowner. As for it being a barrier to entry, we see presently that new entrants are either requested to do or wishing to do DSC1, so there is already becoming an established minimum standard. But the training needs to include an element of deer management for sustainable populations - sustainability being the balance of environmental, social and economic +/-.
 
But you do not have to do DSC1 to get a ticket for deer and deer management will be different from area to area due to land owners not wanting any shooting on there land.
Think a professional stalker signing some ONE off is a better option than a DSC1/2 and in the field for the experience and gralloching .
 
Some not all. Some have been stalking a long time. Some more than the Assessors and verifiers.
I’m not disputing that in the slightest Malc, I’m asked regularly if i am still an AW my answer is always the same

“Nope and bloody glad to get shot of it, nothing but a ball ache!”
 
Further update from BASC as follows:

Deer strategy breakdown – key points

  1. We do not consider deer to be a national problem. In many areas of England deer populations are well managed at an environmentally sustainable level. We do however accept that certain species in certain areas are a problem. Therefore, we argue that a more targeted approach should be adopted throughout the England Deer Strategy. We certainly would not want deer to be considered as pests and to be eradicated.
  2. We are sure there are lessons to be learned from previous government-sponsored wildlife control schemes and that aspects of the methodologies used in these could be applied to tackle problem areas/species. We are surprised that neither Defra nor the Forestry Commission have considered this approach.
  3. BASC is the primary provider of deer management training (we deliver 50% of all DSC levels 1 and 2 annually), so we have a key role to play in ensuring that the sector has the capacity to manage deer, both now and in the future.
  4. BASC is keen to help deliver the required deer management across the country and will work with Defra and stakeholders to enable this.
Highlighted below are some key questions within the consultation, plus our position on each:

Q6. Incentives for deer management

One of our biggest concerns with the strategy is regarding the level of attention given to where culled deer end up. There needs to be much greater emphasis on ensuring a final market for the venison produced and that the supply chain has no bottlenecks.

The way to incentivise deer managers to shoot more deer is to have a high market value for the carcass. An option for this would be for the government to purchase carcasses from Approved Game Handling Establishments (AGHEs) through some form of targeted incentive scheme.

For example, if we need to cull more muntjac, a premium could be offered through the AGHEs. At the moment, the carcass value of £5 – £10 for muntjac does not make it viable to cull them other than for personal consumption. Were these carcasses paid for by the government, they could then be used as an excellent source of healthy protein in a variety of settings, such as hospitals and schools.

Q7. No close season for male deer

BASC disagrees with the proposal of no close season for male deer. It is our view that it wouldn’t help reduce population levels in the long term, which can only be achieved by concentrating on the female cull. There is already an option for landowners who are suffering damage to control deer out of season, so we do not see the requirement for this proposal.

Q8. Shooting of deer at night

BASC strongly disagrees with the removal of the need for a licence to shoot deer at night. We do however agree with the need for an easier licensing process to allow night shooting where it is required. This would provide another tool for a deer manager to deploy if struggling to achieve cull targets. The licensing system would also help prevent some of the illegitimate killing (poaching) of deer at night.

Q14. Mandatory testing for all deer stalkers

BASC strongly disagrees with the proposal to require all deer stalkers to pass a mandatory test as there is no evidence it is required.
We have no records of any claims through our members insurance of incidents related to deer management. Similarly, we are not aware of any welfare issues arising from legitimate deer management and would like to see the evidence before such a draconian law was introduced.

The net result of a mandatory requirement for training would actually reduce the numbers of deer managers available to undertake the cull required as this would act as a significant barrier to entry into the sector.

The average age of BASC deer stalker members is 58 years old, and unless we can provide better access into the deer management sector, we will struggle to attract any new or young deer stalkers. This will have major impacts on our ability to control the national deer herd in the future.

The deer management sector has an excellent record of training and development with over half of all deer managers having achieved DSC1. BASC is strongly committed to training to ensure that those involved in the deer management sector demonstrate the highest standards at all times, but we are firmly of the belief that voluntary self-regulation is the best way to achieve this, rather than a bureaucratic diktat.

Would these proposals require new legislation?​

There is no need to review the existing Deer Act 1991 in relation to any of the proposals put forward, especially regarding close seasons for male deer and night shooting.

There is adequate provision within this legislation for the issuing of licences for shooting at night and out of season. Instead, Defra should review its policies for issuing these licences to simplify and streamline the system, thereby enabling deer managers to obtain the necessary licence where and when it is required.

The alternative is a lot of parliamentary time being wasted when these tools are already available.

 
Further update from BASC as follows:

Deer strategy breakdown – key points

  1. We do not consider deer to be a national problem. In many areas of England deer populations are well managed at an environmentally sustainable level. We do however accept that certain species in certain areas are a problem. Therefore, we argue that a more targeted approach should be adopted throughout the England Deer Strategy. We certainly would not want deer to be considered as pests and to be eradicated.
  2. We are sure there are lessons to be learned from previous government-sponsored wildlife control schemes and that aspects of the methodologies used in these could be applied to tackle problem areas/species. We are surprised that neither Defra nor the Forestry Commission have considered this approach.
  3. BASC is the primary provider of deer management training (we deliver 50% of all DSC levels 1 and 2 annually), so we have a key role to play in ensuring that the sector has the capacity to manage deer, both now and in the future.
  4. BASC is keen to help deliver the required deer management across the country and will work with Defra and stakeholders to enable this.
Highlighted below are some key questions within the consultation, plus our position on each:

Q6. Incentives for deer management

One of our biggest concerns with the strategy is regarding the level of attention given to where culled deer end up. There needs to be much greater emphasis on ensuring a final market for the venison produced and that the supply chain has no bottlenecks.

The way to incentivise deer managers to shoot more deer is to have a high market value for the carcass. An option for this would be for the government to purchase carcasses from Approved Game Handling Establishments (AGHEs) through some form of targeted incentive scheme.

For example, if we need to cull more muntjac, a premium could be offered through the AGHEs. At the moment, the carcass value of £5 – £10 for muntjac does not make it viable to cull them other than for personal consumption. Were these carcasses paid for by the government, they could then be used as an excellent source of healthy protein in a variety of settings, such as hospitals and schools.

Q7. No close season for male deer

BASC disagrees with the proposal of no close season for male deer. It is our view that it wouldn’t help reduce population levels in the long term, which can only be achieved by concentrating on the female cull. There is already an option for landowners who are suffering damage to control deer out of season, so we do not see the requirement for this proposal.

Q8. Shooting of deer at night

BASC strongly disagrees with the removal of the need for a licence to shoot deer at night. We do however agree with the need for an easier licensing process to allow night shooting where it is required. This would provide another tool for a deer manager to deploy if struggling to achieve cull targets. The licensing system would also help prevent some of the illegitimate killing (poaching) of deer at night.

Q14. Mandatory testing for all deer stalkers

BASC strongly disagrees with the proposal to require all deer stalkers to pass a mandatory test as there is no evidence it is required.
We have no records of any claims through our members insurance of incidents related to deer management. Similarly, we are not aware of any welfare issues arising from legitimate deer management and would like to see the evidence before such a draconian law was introduced.

The net result of a mandatory requirement for training would actually reduce the numbers of deer managers available to undertake the cull required as this would act as a significant barrier to entry into the sector.

The average age of BASC deer stalker members is 58 years old, and unless we can provide better access into the deer management sector, we will struggle to attract any new or young deer stalkers. This will have major impacts on our ability to control the national deer herd in the future.

The deer management sector has an excellent record of training and development with over half of all deer managers having achieved DSC1. BASC is strongly committed to training to ensure that those involved in the deer management sector demonstrate the highest standards at all times, but we are firmly of the belief that voluntary self-regulation is the best way to achieve this, rather than a bureaucratic diktat.

Would these proposals require new legislation?​

There is no need to review the existing Deer Act 1991 in relation to any of the proposals put forward, especially regarding close seasons for male deer and night shooting.

There is adequate provision within this legislation for the issuing of licences for shooting at night and out of season. Instead, Defra should review its policies for issuing these licences to simplify and streamline the system, thereby enabling deer managers to obtain the necessary licence where and when it is required.

The alternative is a lot of parliamentary time being wasted when these tools are already available.

Conner Q6 is the most relevant and has basically stopped the reduction of deer numbers in the central belt of Scotland. I am glad to read in your reply that you would put financial incentives on certain deer. Had this been done in Scotland many years ago we could have save a lot of money. Currently running at over a quarter Billion pounds. Also we would have been in a much stronger position on bringing down deer number's.
 
Glad to see BASC does not think mandatory training even thou they run the courses for DSC.
I think it states mandatory testing, not training so you MUST pass it, if there was a mandatory test implemented and you failed then you could not shoot door whereas if you "fail" the optional DSC you can still shoot deer. Also, I imagine the mandatory element is the barrier giving concern, as many stalkers would inevitably refuse to do it and hand in their ticket.

Interestingly, as an aside, when I sat my level 1 the only two guys who failed it were older guys who had been stalking for over 30 years and failed both the shooting test and the deer ID parts.......
 
Personally I don’t give a rats arse what BASC thinks, deer need killing!

Extend the seasons legalise night shooting let’s crack on and get the job done instead of Fanny and about on here talking about it!

Hell yeah.

Deer stalkers are a big revenue stream for BASC. They want too many deer and are actively promoting it. more deer = more stalkers = more ££. They even stole the CIC trophy measuring system to coin as much as possible in.
 
The translation is that you’re getting the mandatory test and probably the night shooting and no closed season on males.
I’d be inclined to ask for a population breakdown and an individual strategy for each species.
What works in the highlands won’t necessarily transfer to Sussex.
The demands for an ever open and stable market for the venison are never going to be realised, you can’t force people to buy it.
Not yet anyway.
 
The government’s commitment to the issue is commendable, but the goal of a healthy, sustainable deer population will only be reached with the support of every deer manager, including those who manage deer on a voluntary, part-time basis and account for much of the annual cull.

BASC’s response will focus on ensuring any proposals taken forward make a meaningful difference and acknowledge the management practices that are already used.

BASC welcomes the proposals to incentivise deer management and introduce grants to help bolster the venison supply chain, but believes that for such incentives to succeed they must focus on the species and specific areas where there are known problems.

Deer should not be seen as a national problem. Any strategy taken forward must respect the role of deer in the countryside and the management already undertaken. We will not allow their status to be degraded or their welfare jeopardised.

BASC does not support the proposal to introduce mandatory minimum standards for all deer managers, as it will produce a barrier to entry where there is no evidence it is required.

Shame it hasn’t had such a stance against the lead issue!
 
The translation is that you’re getting the mandatory test and probably the night shooting and no closed season on males.
I’d be inclined to ask for a population breakdown and an individual strategy for each species.
What works in the highlands won’t necessarily transfer to Sussex.
The demands for an ever open and stable market for the venison are never going to be realised, you can’t force people to buy it.
Not yet anyway.
I am so fed up with the political horlicks that surrounds deer, herd species are out of control and need putting back in their tracks, gloves are off!

Someone meeds to man up and change the rules!

Popular with the stalking masses or not !
 
Personally I don’t give a rats arse what BASC thinks, deer need killing!

Extend the seasons legalise night shooting let’s crack on and get the job done instead of Fanny and about on here talking about it!
Agreed. The people against night shooting obviously do no fox or rabbit control! If someone is an unsafe shot, it makes no odds if the target is a fox or deer! Deer need controlling, that is blatantly apparent, but an outlet for it is important or they will just be chucked in any available ditch causing more negative press than we already get! Perhaps basc would like to take this challenge on?
 
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