Ev farce!

[Smellydog]

The ‘Electric Vehicles Will Save The Planet’ Farce Is Unraveling Quickly​

• by Steve MacDonald
• August 21, 2022

An auto club in Germany that claims 21 million members ran some controlled charging test electric vehicles to see how efficient that process was. The results put another nail in the value coffin. Not only are they expensive to buy and own, but the average charge also wastes up to 13% of the electricity.
Put another way, the consumer is charged for all the electricity required to fully charge the battery, which is as much as 13% more than the battery can hold.
So, imagine pouring two gallons of gasoline on the ground every time you filled a 20-gallon tank. People would lose their collective minds. But that will be standard for every charge of every vehicle in the utopian electric fleet of the future.
ADAC’s Ecotest calculated the kWh needed to fully charge a range of electric vehicle batteries.

The result of the test under the same conditions for all electric car models: E-car drivers have to plan for a particularly large amount of power loss for some models – but everyone has to pay extra. According to the ADAC Ecotest, a 100 kWh battery in a Tesla Model X100D actually needs 108.3 kWh. The Kia e-Niro Spirit has 72.3 kWh for a 64 kWh battery. The Jaguar I-PACE EV400 also needs at least 10 kWh more for a 90 kWh battery.
Click to expand...

With electricity prices scheduled to double in New Hampshire (as an example) and with the cost of EVs still out of the range of most middle and lower-income families, throwing money out the window with every charge might just as well be another tax.
Line loss or transformer loss is baked into the infrastructure. There is no way to transmit electricity without waste (primarily) in the form of heat. Anywhere from 8-15% or more of the electricity generated by power stations is lost before it gets to you. A carbon footprint problem we’re supposed to ignore.
But not in the ADAC tests. The consumer pays immediately for the loss of every kWh that exceeded the actual electricity needed to charge the battery.


Shamelessly copied.

 

[StephenToast]

From what I can see at current fuel/energy prices the cost per mile to run an EV is still significantly less than an ICE. Even if electric costs increase I would imagine this would still be true but to a lesser degree, unless the cost of electric doubles and the price of diesel/petrol halves but that's unlikely.

 

[Tf223]

This isn’t evidence of the fallicy of EVs.

To do a comparative response RE petrol cars;

Did you know that cars lose petrol through loss of vapours from the tank every time you fill up. Further the larger petrol stations who operate stage II petrol vapour recovery systems under their Environmental Permit are obliged to recover the petrol vapours emitted from your tank during fill up. Did you also know that they then sell your petrol vapours back to you in the form of liquid petrol?

Naff article really, as are my facts (albeit true). They both change nothing.

No fuel system is 100% efficient.

 

[WH308]

Hmmm.

Where does all the heat that your car engine generates and your radiator dumps come from? Could it be unused energy from the fuel?

 

[Smellydog]

From what I can see at current fuel/energy prices the cost per mile to run an EV is still significantly less than an ICE. Even if electric costs increase I would imagine this would still be true but to a lesser degree, unless the cost of electric doubles and the price of diesel/petrol halves but that's unlikely.

Wait until they start taxing vehicle electric through your smart meter!

 

[Smellydog]

I think the point being made is that there is no free ride and there will also be lots of wasted energy still contributing to the carbon footprint everyone has their panties all twisted up over!
Re the petrol fumes. No cars now other than classics breath both ways. Only within extreme ambient temperature increase will a tank vent externally. On the whole they don't.

 

[Tf223]

I think the point being made is that there is no free ride and there will also be lots of wasted energy still contributing to the carbon footprint everyone has their panties all twisted up over!
Re the petrol fumes. No cars now other than classics breath both ways. Only within extreme ambient temperature increase will a tank vent externally. On the whole they don't.

RE fumes - they do on fill up, that replaced air has to go somewhere

 

[Smellydog]

RE fumes - they do on fill up, that replaced air has to go somewhere

Yes of course. I'm not trying to glorify one over the other.
I do know however the electric option is not necessarily the panacea most probably think it is.

 

[Tf223]

Yes of course. I'm not trying to glorify one over the other.
I do know however the electric option is not necessarily the panacea most probably think it is.

I agree, it’s definitely overhyped. But as with everything these days there are articles on the extreme at either end.
It’s inevitably better than conventional fuel, just by exactly how much is a matter of dispute and varies with the infrastructure behind it (green energy sources, recycling of batteries/rare earths etc).

 

[long_range_rob]

Sod it! I’m buying a Shire.

 

[Pine Marten]

Sod it! I’m buying a Shire.

I was listening to the radio while driving in France last week and they were interviewing the former ecology minister (2001-02, he didn't last long...). He said he thought in the future, EVs wouldn't be the solution. Fair enough. "It will be horses and we really need to focus on developing capacity NOW". Right. He had a book just launched to sell though.

 

[long_range_rob]

I was listening to the radio while driving in France last week and they were interviewing the former ecology minister (2001-02, he didn't last long...). He said he thought in the future, EVs wouldn't be the solution. Fair enough. "It will be horses and we really need to focus on developing capacity NOW". Right. He had a book just launched to sell though.

I may have to settle for half a dozen Shetlands though.

 

[kes]

Of the two things certain in life, an equalisation of the vehicle tax and excise duty will be along shortly since electricity promises to strip governments of masses of revenue sourced from the ICE (Vat on price, vat and tax on fuel vat on repairs, vat on parts, etc etc, until recently. If you go by horse they will tax the roads and oats - pedal cycles seems the best bet - apart from the weather.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Did you know that cars lose petrol through loss of vapours from the tank every time you fill up. Did you also know that they then sell your petrol vapours back to you in the form of liquid petrol?

No, they don't. And no, they don't. The vapour recovery system merely prevents the escape of fuel vapours, to reduce the likelihood of creating an explosive atmosphere. The vacuum side of the fuel pump draws the vapour back through the nozzle before any fuel actually leaves it, so the fuel you pay for is the fuel you receive.

I used to design fuel pumps for Tokheim, incidentally

 

[Swedish]

imagine pouring two gallons of gasoline on the ground every time you filled a 20-gallon tank.

Internal combustion engines are only around 40% efficient (plus additional losses through refining, transport and storage) so using this analogy imagine pouring 12 gallons of petrol onto the ground every time you fill a 20 gallon tank. I don't support the idea of EV's saving the planet but this is not a good argument to use. EV's do however use electricity, 46% of which is fossil fuel generated, of which the efficiency is between 35% to 46%, add in the losses for transmission and charging and you start to build a more comprehensive argument.

 

[angusb1]

I was listening to the radio while driving in France last week and they were interviewing the former ecology minister (2001-02, he didn't last long...). He said he thought in the future, EVs wouldn't be the solution. Fair enough. "It will be horses and we really need to focus on developing capacity NOW". Right. He had a book just launched to sell though.

Quite a few folk in our village have horses and traps. My favourite is a horse called Delboy. Apparently he's a trotter

 

[Klenchblaize]

Every horse owner should be subject to a methane tax commensurate with each beast’s rumen capacity.

Save the planet, man!


K

 

[Woodsmoke]

My favourite is a horse called Delboy. Apparently he's a trotter

Hang your head . . . . .

 

[angusb1]

Hang your head . . . . .

I know it sounds like a load of old pony but honestly, it's true. I'll post a photo next time I see him

 

[Franchi Matt]

I never get bored of posting this picture at ironically fitting moments such as this.



Plugging anything in is only going to get more expensive because we rely on it too much on it and they'll always have you over a barrel.

Haven't researched its validity yet but someone told me the other day he read an article about buying diesel at current prices, running a generator to produce electricity and doing it all significantly cheaper than the average domestic unit cost per KW, I for one would look into that if things get much sillier.