Copper bullets - shoulder or armpit?!

[AfricaRob]

Used 6.5x55 estate rifle with full copper on 6 red stags in October (3 for me, 3 for a mate) out to 190 yards - behind the shoulder on all on them, very minimal meat damage and clean exits on all - even when hitting ribs not much damage.

I'm not a creedmore fanboy but it was a great rifle to use and very accurate as you'd expect.
4 dropped more or less on the spot, one went 20 yards and one went 50-60 yards though well hit.

I think the factory loads do what it says on the tin, at least for me and I have no issue with copper - game dealers call for it up there now.

 

[John Doe]

Can someone in East Anglia check on Lee to make sure he is ok? We are 21 posts into a thread on copper and he hasn’t been on to say how many hundred years he has been stalking or how many tens of thousands of deer he has shot!

 

[Keith Edmunds]

As far as I can see it's the same bullet with a better tip that improves bc a bit and doesn't melt/deform in flight, assume not much difference except at long ranges maybe.....?

And the profile of the groves I believe.

 

[.25-06]

If you can break a bone on the way through it certainly cuts down tracking time.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

As far as I can see it's the same bullet with a better tip that improves bc a bit and doesn't melt/deform in flight, assume not much difference except at long ranges maybe.....?

From what I’ve been told the alloy composition has changed too to improve expansion. Time will tell if this is the reality.

Ben

 

[Leec6.5]

Can someone in East Anglia check on Lee to make sure he is ok? We are 21 posts into a thread on copper and he hasn’t been on to say how many hundred years he has been stalking or how many tens of thousands of deer he has shot!

Im staying out of it, you boy’s figure it out for yourselves

 

[JH83]

What barrel length is on your .308?

20”

 

[Bowland blades]

130 copper is a big bullet for Roe ( you dont state how fast) I mean 100 grain TTSX is my favourite deer bullet ever its a bit much on CWD and muntjac but fine on Roe to big reds , the 100grain will punch though both shoulders on a red at 400 yards.
You just aint got the ballace just right for roe imo
big difference on brands and impact speeds
I personally class 130 grain a heavy bullet in lead for roe , if it was legal on Roe in England i would definitely be looking for a 223 with Roe and the two other smaller species with copper. but getting one just for CWD and Muntjac is just not viable
Lets face it the deer act as regards ammo performance is poor and now we have copper OUTDATED

Placement should depend on presentation available , to shoot only one target area makes for lots of missed opertunity ,

 

[Alantoo]

From what I’ve been told the alloy composition has changed too to improve expansion. Time will tell if this is the reality.

Ben

I think the clue is in the name, Gilding Metal eXpanding. Copper eXpanding. So they are presumably using a softer hardness state than they could achieve with gilding metal.

 

[Adyb]

I think the clue is in the name, Gilding Metal eXpanding. Copper eXpanding. So they are presumably using a softer hardness state than they could achieve with gilding metal.

Names are just branding. Suspect from hornady marketing blurb that they have not changed the metal. Plenty of science about tips grooves etc, they would be crowing about a new alloy for sure... some US forums stating it's the same metal e.g:

Hornady CX vs GMX bullets

Ok, I'm a laggard. I know that. But just when I'm about to introduce the GMX to my rifle barrels up pops the CX bullet. Damn. Hornady doesn't bother t...

www.24hourcampfire.com

 

[Alantoo]

@Adyb

When I looked at the blurb a few months ago I had the distinct impression it was just a simple naming convention. This would appear to confirm that.

30 Cal .308 150 gr CX™ - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

 

[DMc88]

Only used Copper for 40 rounds. And only on Roe. S&B 130 grain soft point. It just pencil holed through them. No real expansion and they were all shot at 130-180 metres distance. I contemplated shooting in the shoulder to try promote expansion, however on a roe that would be 2 shoulders destroyed and that's too much meat damage for me.......back to Lead I went

 

[User00033]

Names are just branding. Suspect from hornady marketing blurb that they have not changed the metal. Plenty of science about tips grooves etc, they would be crowing about a new alloy for sure... some US forums stating it's the same metal e.g:

Hornady CX vs GMX bullets

Ok, I'm a laggard. I know that. But just when I'm about to introduce the GMX to my rifle barrels up pops the CX bullet. Damn. Hornady doesn't bother t...

www.24hourcampfire.com

I asked Hornady directly.

No change to the metal composition.

Changes only to tip and geometry of the cannelure groove.

 

[Alantoo]

I asked Hornady directly.

No change to the metal composition.

Changes only to tip and geometry of the cannelure groove.

More than likely upon reflection....they wouldn't have thrown the word "alloy" in if it was pure copper.

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Only used Copper for 40 rounds. And only on Roe. S&B 130 grain soft point. It just pencil holed through them. No real expansion and they were all shot at 130-180 metres distance. I contemplated shooting in the shoulder to try promote expansion, however on a roe that would be 2 shoulders destroyed and that's too much meat damage for me.......back to Lead I went

Yeah I'd rather shoot lead than have a wounded animal or deliberately waste half of the animal so you can use non toxic

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I asked Hornady directly.

No change to the metal composition.

Changes only to tip and geometry of the cannelure groove.

So..."gliding metal" is actually "copper alloy" and they are both "eXpanding" I guess "CX" is a bit more snappy than the new GMXITG or "Gliding Metal Expanding Improved Tip and Groove"

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

So..."gliding metal" is actually "copper alloy" and they are both "eXpanding" I guess "CX" is a bit more snappy than the new GMXITG or "Gliding Metal Expanding Improved Tip and Groove"

Classic marketing, rebranding a product to mask it as something new. People who have shot the GMX and didn't like it wont entertain the "New GMX" so a work around to try regain buyers is to call it something else to fool you.

Always read the fine print

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Classic marketing, rebranding a product to mask it as something new. People who have shot the GMX and didn't like it wont entertain the "New GMX" so a work around to try regain buyers is to call it something else to fool you.

Always read the fine print

A lot of detail on this podcast when you want to lose an hour of your life.......Seriously though, it is quite interesting when you are not pushed for time, maybe a good ale, scotch or glass of red in hand

 

[Ratel]

If you use a soft cored bullet, either lead or zinc/tin, you get a lot of tiny fragments throughout the meat.

So what in effect you are saying is the only bullet that's non toxic is copper.
Tin bullets eg Evo green from RWS , you are saying will leave fragments of metal everywhere in the meat. Surely this is as bad as lead or maybe even worse.

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

So what in effect you are saying is the only bullet that's non toxic is copper.
Tin bullets eg Evo green from RWS , you are saying will leave fragments of metal everywhere in the meat. Surely this is as bad as lead or maybe even worse.

That crossed my mind. You're still contaminating the carcass with metal. The difference is tin isn't toxic AFAIK where as lead is. Although, is eating 3 or 4 lead shot deer a year going to increase your lead levels? It probably would but at a negligible amount. Not enough for me to care