Copper and blood trails

What velocity is that pushing? Maybe at 220 the velocity has dropped below to minimum for reliable expansion
130gr .270 factory load pushes 3050 from a 22” barrel
At 220m it’s dropped to around 2500-2600
That’s more than enough to expand especially with the size of hollow point Fox bullets have.

We tested Fox and many others into gel and clay down to 2000fps.
They still expand at 2000

If you shoot a bullet that is designed specifically to hold its original mass and not fragment (to produce cleaner carcases) through the lungs without hitting a major vessel, you are more likely to get pass through, smaller exits and if shot high lung, slower blood loss through that exit.
Lung material carries a very low pressure blood supply (it wouldn’t work as a gas exchanger if it wasn’t low pressure!)
Between skin and skin on a pure lung shot you have no major vessels.
Your textbook DSC1 target is a lung shot, not a heart shot

This lack of observed blood trail is almost exclusively shot placement.
You could shoot them directly in the low heart with a steel ball bearing and get a massive Blood loss through the small hole!
If you are observing the shot placement on the recovered Carcase you have by default added one more to the list of successfully killed deer….regardless if it didn’t leave a snail trail of vital juice.

For every example of no blood trail I and many others could and have shown first hand examples of the complete opposite.

I shot a roe at 225m last week or so.
Pulled it slightly forward and took it forward of the front legs behind the sternum, severing a major vessel.
Small entry
Small exit
Deer slid down hill with a few kicks of the back legs
Through the thermal the blood trail was 2ft wide and 10ft long!

You could argue that having to alter shot placement with copper is demonstrating a design flaw
You could also argue that the use of an SST or a fragmenting bullet of lead or non lead construction on a high double shoulder shot and the subsequent destruction of the entire front end is also a design flaw…..
The perforation of the diaphragm by fragments on a text book broadside engine room shot..
The destruction of loin through large fragments taking a non linear exit…
The vacuum effect of sucking green through the diaphragm without direct perforation….
Non linear pass through (bullets turning)..
All design flaws of standard cup and core or fragmenting non lead bullets that have been reported numerous times.

You don’t need to destroy any Carcase with a fragmenting bullet to get a good result, with any bullet material.
Increase your sample size and evaluate what you have hit internally on every shot before you conclude that it is the material, the brand, the velocity, the calibre, the rifle etc etc

Forestry England evaluated a sample size of 500 rounds of Fox 130gr .308 (same weight, same velocity, bigger calibre) before committing to the brand 5 years ago
I would argue when 85% of those (one brand, done for every brand they use) are documented field results that THEY have the biggest studies of non lead, not any YouTube advertising channel.
They simply don’t use any products that don’t work as has been shown by them dumping certain calibres, optics, moderators and ammo from the list of authorised products…..

Plus we have stock….
Not always the case with US products
 
130gr .270 factory load pushes 3050 from a 22” barrel
At 220m it’s dropped to around 2500-2600
That’s more than enough to expand especially with the size of hollow point Fox bullets have.

We tested Fox and many others into gel and clay down to 2000fps.
They still expand at 2000

If you shoot a bullet that is designed specifically to hold its original mass and not fragment (to produce cleaner carcases) through the lungs without hitting a major vessel, you are more likely to get pass through, smaller exits and if shot high lung, slower blood loss through that exit.
Lung material carries a very low pressure blood supply (it wouldn’t work as a gas exchanger if it wasn’t low pressure!)
Between skin and skin on a pure lung shot you have no major vessels.
Your textbook DSC1 target is a lung shot, not a heart shot

This lack of observed blood trail is almost exclusively shot placement.
You could shoot them directly in the low heart with a steel ball bearing and get a massive Blood loss through the small hole!
If you are observing the shot placement on the recovered Carcase you have by default added one more to the list of successfully killed deer….regardless if it didn’t leave a snail trail of vital juice.

For every example of no blood trail I and many others could and have shown first hand examples of the complete opposite.

I shot a roe at 225m last week or so.
Pulled it slightly forward and took it forward of the front legs behind the sternum, severing a major vessel.
Small entry
Small exit
Deer slid down hill with a few kicks of the back legs
Through the thermal the blood trail was 2ft wide and 10ft long!

You could argue that having to alter shot placement with copper is demonstrating a design flaw
You could also argue that the use of an SST or a fragmenting bullet of lead or non lead construction on a high double shoulder shot and the subsequent destruction of the entire front end is also a design flaw…..
The perforation of the diaphragm by fragments on a text book broadside engine room shot..
The destruction of loin through large fragments taking a non linear exit…
The vacuum effect of sucking green through the diaphragm without direct perforation….
Non linear pass through (bullets turning)..
All design flaws of standard cup and core or fragmenting non lead bullets that have been reported numerous times.

You don’t need to destroy any Carcase with a fragmenting bullet to get a good result, with any bullet material.
Increase your sample size and evaluate what you have hit internally on every shot before you conclude that it is the material, the brand, the velocity, the calibre, the rifle etc etc

Forestry England evaluated a sample size of 500 rounds of Fox 130gr .308 (same weight, same velocity, bigger calibre) before committing to the brand 5 years ago
I would argue when 85% of those (one brand, done for every brand they use) are documented field results that THEY have the biggest studies of non lead, not any YouTube advertising channel.
They simply don’t use any products that don’t work as has been shown by them dumping certain calibres, optics, moderators and ammo from the list of authorised products…..

Plus we have stock….
Not always the case with US products

Great write up - very well written and I definitely see your logic. Out of curiosity, will these factory loaded fox bullets ever hit the Irish market? I'd love to get my hands on some 130g in .308!
 
Ok - one that went a bit wrong, and (I think) tells you that placement is probably the real issue.

Roe doe, attempted chest shot at 200m with .308, 150gr ballistic tip (lead). Quite a steep downhill shot. Deer collapsed to shot, flailed around, then got up and ran hard into clear fell. I had a rough idea where it had gone down (saw legs waving), so wasn't too worried. Found the carcass quickly, but took ages to reconstruct the blood trail. Bullet had come in at quite a steep angle, smashing down through the scapula, and then veered out sideways, taking out the top of the femur. No real penetration of the body cavity - just enough damage some bigger blood vessels and the edge of the lung.
 

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And another.

Roe buck, 170m. Heart shot with 123gr Fox from a 6.5 Creedmoor. Small jump, ran hard into thick weeds. Blood trail visible through binoculars and easily followed 20m to carcass.
 

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Great write up - very well written and I definitely see your logic. Out of curiosity, will these factory loaded fox bullets ever hit the Irish market? I'd love to get my hands on some 130g in .308!
Have a look for some Sako non toxic, around E50 a box but readily available.
 
I have a box of these but yet to shoot a deer with them but they only come in 162(ish) grain in 308.

The 120 grain 6.5mm work really well though.
That’d be far too heavy, have a nosey around on the t’interweb, the copper behaves differently and you get full pass through with lighter bullets.
Lambert‘s might have something.
 
Of course, sometimes it just doesn’t matter what you hit them with, or where you hit them. Even the dog isn’t much good..
 

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What weight of TTSX/Calibre? Quite a big hole that.....!
130gr TTSX in .308 doing 2950 at the muzzle. As you can tell from the exit, there was quite a downwards direction as I was shooting from above in the valley. The round is good on mature animals but on slight kids, it’s too devastatin. I now have now ended up with some 110gr bullets of the same make so intend to try a few to see if it’s more versatile.
 
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