DSC 2 - worth it?

[NoIDeer]

There seems to be a suggestion that the performance criteria of DSC2 have been eroded by allowing it to be completed in one stalk. Is that the case?
Asking as a possible future candidate.

For what it's worth, I think that DSC1 should teach all the performance criteria of DSC2 including large game handling and there should be an entry level course that is called something like safe stalker that teaches and tests safe rifle handling, the very basics to complete a safe hunt and satisfy the authorities to grant an FAC.

 

[Stalker62]

There seems to be a suggestion that the performance criteria of DSC2 have been eroded by allowing it to be completed in one stalk.

This question arises periodically, and seems to cause much animation.

I did the 'old' version of DSCII - and for that I am glad.

The 'new' version is what it is, (one stalk instead of three).

As there is only the 'new' version now available, then I would encourage you to complete it. You will I hope, enjoy the process.

Whilst repetition does not make the point - I am glad I completed the 'old' version.

 

[willie_gunn]

There seems to be a suggestion that the performance criteria of DSC2 have been eroded by allowing it to be completed in one stalk. Is that the case?
Asking as a possible future candidate.

For what it's worth, I think that DSC1 should teach all the performance criteria of DSC2 including large game handling and there should be an entry level course that is called something like safe stalker that teaches and tests safe rifle handling, the very basics to complete a safe hunt and satisfy the authorities to grant an FAC.

To answer your first question, no, the performance critieria haven't been eroded.

Other than the move to a single ICR, the most significant changes are that the Candidate can now use a thermal spotter to locate deer, and also if deer are spotted by the AW they can now be pointed out to the Candidate - the Canddate still needs to verify that those deer are suitable for the cull plan agreed at the beginning of the Witnessed Stalk.

Another change of note is that, in the new system, the AW is there just to witness - so no training, guiding, steering or suggesting to the Candidate during the Witnessed Stalk, as sometimes happened under the old system. As a result there is now far less questioning of the Candidate by the AW during the Witnessed Stalks, and far more by the Assessor (who also quizzes the AW where necessary).

In the new format ideally all Performance Criteria should be witnessed in a single outing, whereas in the old it was typical to "mix and match", covering all the PC's in three ICR's over several outings.

 

[norma 308]

Ask yourself why you you are considering doing it.

Is it about finding additional stalking opportunities, about furthering your own knowledge and experience, about ticking a box, or something else?

Candidates complete DSC2 for a whole variety of reasons, but only you can determine whether your specific motivation justifies the time and effort involved,

Yep
All the above

 

[Dunwaters]

Cannot help thinking that folk wouldn't be tripping over themselves to do that.


I used to have a week each year on the Sika Hinds (and then later the Stags) in Sutherland. The Stalker up there was an AW, and I managed (just) to get one AW stalk in each week for the three years that I had 'available', once I had entered the process.

It was not (for me) easy, but I really enjoyed (not entirely sure that is the right word) the whole process.

Took plenty of time to fill out the booklet as comprehensively as I could.

Still quite a tense time when the Verifier phones to discuss it all.

I went on to do the BDS stuff as well - just enjoyed the learning about what I was fascinated by.

Twenty years (nearly) later, I still very much consider myself a 'novice', but am glad I went through the process that was 'in' when I went for it.

Like you, I did it over 3 stalks and a whole season. It was a bit of a struggle to juggle AW availability with my own and we had a blank day, so 4 witnessed outings.
I‘m now an AW, and I’d be very pushed to complete all the steps in one single outing with one deer harvested.
It can be done, if everything goes perfectly, but it would make for a pretty busy day, what with ID checks, discussion of objectives, deer selection, shot placement, recovery, wounding scenarios, knife work, larder work etc etc.

 

[finnbear270]

Like you, I did it over 3 stalks and a whole season. It was a bit of a struggle to juggle AW availability with my own and we had a blank day, so 4 witnessed outings.
I‘m now an AW, and I’d be very pushed to complete all the steps in one single outing with one deer harvested.
It can be done, if everything goes perfectly, but it would make for a pretty busy day, what with ID checks, discussion of objectives, deer selection, shot placement, recovery, wounding scenarios, knife work, larder work etc etc.

Yup, got the T shirt for more than 3 to complete L2.

 

[Stalker62]

It can be done, if everything goes perfectly...

On my second AW stalk, I shot a hind and thought that was in the bag.

As I yomped up the hill to confirm what a great Hunter I was, I was mortified to see the Hind (although down) raise her head and look in my direction.

My AW gave me no direction other than:-

"Carry on as if I was not here".

I closed in, set up the sticks and put a second round into her neck (that and her head was all I could see).

I was convinced that I had 'failed' the stalk.

Not so, but still not my finest hour.

I can only speak about my experiences and my AW.

He gave me not an inch, and I would not have had it any other way.

 

[willie_gunn]

It can be done, if everything goes perfectly, but it would make for a pretty busy day, what with ID checks, discussion of objectives, deer selection, shot placement, recovery, wounding scenarios, knife work, larder work etc etc.

As you say, to achieve all the PC's in a single ICR, and ideally in a single witnessed stalk, is a big ask.

It requires a full-on session, with the Candidate having to demonstrate everything "from soup to nuts", all without any guidance or coaching from the AW. This is followed by a session with the Assessor to verify that the Candidate really knows their stuff. My experience is that the new scheme puts both the Candidate and the AW under more pressure than the old scheme.

The old scheme was fine for its day, but there's a growing tendency to look at it through rose-tinted spectacles, when it had its own share of faults that meant it not quite the "gold standard" that some now seem to imply.

 

[Bowland blades]

Cannot help thinking that folk wouldn't be tripping over themselves to do that.


I used to have a week each year on the Sika Hinds (and then later the Stags) in Sutherland. The Stalker up there was an AW, and I managed (just) to get one AW stalk in each week for the three years that I had 'available', once I had entered the process.

It was not (for me) easy, but I really enjoyed (not entirely sure that is the right word) the whole process.

Took plenty of time to fill out the booklet as comprehensively as I could.

Still quite a tense time when the Verifier phones to discuss it all.

I went on to do the BDS stuff as well - just enjoyed the learning about what I was fascinated by.

Twenty years (nearly) later, I still very much consider myself a 'novice', but am glad I went through the process that was 'in' when I went for it.

Mine was done at a similar time! I had a lot more respect for the quality of candidates then knowing what i went through , including Alex Jagger asking me to describe and name the lymphatic system top to tail ( litrally) and giving me the most unlikely stalking screw up situation and how i might handle it , ending with finishing a beast with a knife. i think it was 5 witnessed stalks , three was minimum and a few more witnessed but from the high seat and my witness told me at the get go high seat wasn't in his opinion " stalking "
I dont doubt revenue requirements put us on one stalk that could be done culling fenced in deer on a park , that get fed .

 

[patrickt]

Yes as long as you know what YOU are getting from it.

You are going to prove to a second party, and answer questions from a third, that you can stalk, despatch, gralloch and put in the foodchain safely. Demonstrate your knowledge....

Some people dont want to. Or need to. Some people do. Its fair to candidates, I believe.

A susinct, and very accurate reply!!

Patrick

 

[penninelad]

Well - here we go - Having worked in the Land Based Education sector for 40 years I know of the need for new qualifications to 'refresh' the education coffers - so I was very skeptical for many years as I firmly believe qualifications are no substitute for experience - BUT how do you demonstrate this to those that don't/can't trust this alone?
So after 45 years of roe stalking I took the plunge and did DSC1 closely followed DSC2 - and I hate to admit it but there was quite a bit I did not know, especially of species I had little contact with.
Outcome: enjoyable - interesting - educational - BUT useful, if not increasingly essential, IF you want to take advantage of the deer management agreements/contracts that are out there as they often require DSC2 and perceived insurance issues. And importantly DSC2 assesses our experience in terms of best practice - something we should all be pleased about and help to fight off ill-informed public/media criticism.

 

[NoIDeer]

The 'new' version is what it is, (one stalk instead of three).

As there is only the 'new' version now available, then I would encourage you to complete it. You will I hope, enjoy the process.

To answer your first question, no, the performance critieria haven't been eroded.

Other than the move to a single ICR, the most significant changes are that the Candidate can now use a thermal spotter to locate deer, and also if deer are spotted by the AW they can now be pointed out to the Candidate - the Canddate still needs to verify that those deer are suitable for the cull plan agreed at the beginning of the Witnessed Stalk.

Another change of note is that, in the new system, the AW is there just to witness - so no training, guiding, steering or suggesting to the Candidate during the Witnessed Stalk, as sometimes happened under the old system. As a result there is now far less questioning of the Candidate by the AW during the Witnessed Stalks, and far more by the Assessor (who also quizzes the AW where necessary).

In the new format ideally all Performance Criteria should be witnessed in a single outing, whereas in the old it was typical to "mix and match", covering all the PC's in three ICR's over several outings.

Thank for the replys, looks like the qualification still has some kudos.
I must be ready to go for it with very nearly 1000 (999) posts and very close to 10 years membership on SD.

 

[OzzyofWoking]

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand and one times, so apologies if I'm repeating countless threads, but is the DSC 2 worth doing? Giving it serious consideration as I believe you can't be too qualified. Cheers.

I think every quali only makes you more informed and more competent - I am considering it as well, just the time commitment is substantial!

 

[Dunwaters]

On my second AW stalk, I shot a hind and thought that was in the bag.

As I yomped up the hill to confirm what a great Hunter I was, I was mortified to see the Hind (although down) raise her head and look in my direction.

My AW gave me no direction other than:-

"Carry on as if I was not here".

I closed in, set up the sticks and put a second round into her neck (that and her head was all I could see).

I was convinced that I had 'failed' the stalk.

Not so, but still not my finest hour.

I can only speak about my experiences and my AW.

He gave me not an inch, and I would not have had it any other way.

I suspect that a lot of the issues comes down to candidates expectations.
I will TRY to get you through in one go but if not you’ll have to try again.
That concept doesn’t sit well with people raised on “ Course completion certificates” .
I bet we both have a drawer full of those.

 

[willie_gunn]

On my second AW stalk, I shot a hind and thought that was in the bag.

As I yomped up the hill to confirm what a great Hunter I was, I was mortified to see the Hind (although down) raise her head and look in my direction.

My AW gave me no direction other than:-

"Carry on as if I was not here".

I closed in, set up the sticks and put a second round into her neck (that and her head was all I could see).

I was convinced that I had 'failed' the stalk.

Not so, but still not my finest hour.

I can only speak about my experiences and my AW.

He gave me not an inch, and I would not have had it any other way.

To be honest the stalk and the shot - whether completed without incident or not - is the easiest part of DSC2.

Despite this, it’s the part that gets 90% of the focus.

It is everything afterwards where Candidates tend to come unstuck.

But where’s the glamour in describing how the lardering was messed up or the cull records weren’t updated!
.

 

[SJR60]

I don’t believe you can ever be too qualified and you will definitely learn throughout the DSC2 process. As to whether you’ll use it well that’s a matter for you. If you become involved in any industry or sport qualifications matter. As we move forward towards an increasing litigious society, the demand for ever higher qualifications are intensified to mitigate risk. My view is that you may as well do the DSC2 now and enjoy it, rather than possibly being required to undertake it at some point in the future when there may be even more hoops to jump through, when no doubt it will be more expensive and the pressure to achieve the qualification may remove any sense of enjoyment from its undertaking.

 

[stalker 79]

ive done my DSC1 and DSC2

get them done if you get the chance, i need them for the leases i run.

 

[scrumbag]

I think it will become more required in the future and not always the easiest thing to arrange quickly (Easier now with fewer stalks but still not something you can easily next weekend).

 

[willie_gunn]

I think it will become more required in the future and not always the easiest thing to arrange quickly (Easier now with fewer stalks but still not something you can easily next weekend).

To show that the planets can sometimes align, I had an email from a Candidate and we did the first outing the following weekend. Despite several good stalks there ended up being no opportunity for a shot, and we were eventually defeated by the failing light. The following weekend the Candidate successfully completed all PC's for the witnessed stalk.

So it can be done.

That’s why I always recommend Candidates check with a few AW’s on the list to find the one that best meets their specific criteria.

 

[scrumbag]

To show that the planets can sometimes align, I had an email from a Candidate and we did the first outing the following weekend. Despite several good stalks there ended up being no opportunity for a shot, and we were eventually defeated by the failing light. The following weekend the Candidate successfully completed all PC's for the witnessed stalk.

So it can be done.

That’s why I always recommend Candidates check with a few AW’s on the list to find the one that best meets their specific criteria.

I'm sure they can align. But if you don't have your own ground and you need to book stalks, it is much tougher as booking stalks tends to be several months in advance.

Nice one on getting it done for the candidate, though!

Scrummy