Miniature Rifle Range Bill.

[kenbro]

Just a screen shot.
Ken.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

Currently there is no requirement for the operator of a mini-rifle (22lr) range to have a FAC.

A while back, some gangsta style dude with gangsta style customers opened up a mini-rifle range next to the M25. The range was not safe and on multiple occasions bullets left the range, travelled over the M25 and landed on the roof of a greasy spoon diner.

The operator was prosecuted, but got off as he was in lawful possession despite no FAC, as he operated a mini-rifle range.

M25 Instagram range operators acquitted

9th July 2020 The case of the Section 11(4) Instagram-fuelled miniature rifle range caused great concern in the licensed firearms community when it first came to public light. With a jury having de…

ukshootingnews.wordpress.com

 

[Liveonce]

Indeed, the police never tire at any and every opportunity to try and make gun ownership as difficult and restrictive as possible, even where no evidence exists that their is a problem or that current legislation if applied would not stop.

 

[Liveonce]

Currently there is no requirement for the operator of a mini-rifle (22lr) range to have a FAC.

A while back, some gangsta style dude with gangsta style customers opened up a mini-rifle range next to the M25. The range was not safe and on multiple occasions bullets left the range, travelled over the M25 and landed on the roof of a greasy spoon diner.

The operator was prosecuted, but got off as he was in lawful possession despite no FAC, as he operated a mini-rifle range.

M25 Instagram range operators acquitted

9th July 2020 The case of the Section 11(4) Instagram-fuelled miniature rifle range caused great concern in the licensed firearms community when it first came to public light. With a jury having de…

ukshootingnews.wordpress.com

did they get off? quick read and they got £2000 fine, 16months suspended for two years and a five year ban for owning firearms.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

^ Maybe they found something else to prosecute them for?

 

[Heym SR20]

Don’t really see the issue here. If you want a rifle you need an FAC.

Minature Rifle Ranges are great, but they do need to be operated by persons of good repute, and all this bill is doing is to bring these ranges in line with the rest of us.

All the bill does is to ensure that individuals running these pass the criteria that all other holders of Firearms need to.

 

[Liveonce]

Don’t really see the issue here. If you want a rifle you need an FAC.

Minature Rifle Ranges are great, but they do need to be operated by persons of good repute, and all this bill is doing is to bring these ranges in line with the rest of us.

All the bill does is to ensure that individuals running these pass the criteria that all other holders of Firearms need to.

guess so, but it is an exemption dating back many years and I thought you need to be a member of the NSRA who issued an exemption certificate/letter, I cannot believe any RFD would sell a .22lr or ammunition just on somebodies says so that they were running a miniature rifle range,

Then the other part of the post call for restrictions on component parts of ammunition

 

[Eddie P]

did they get off? quick read and they got £2000 fine, 16months suspended for two years and a five year ban for owning firearms.

That was for chasing someone down the road with a rifle.
Nothing to do with the miniture range.

 

[Eddie P]

guess so, but it is an exemption dating back many years and I thought you need to be a member of the NSRA who issued an exemption certificate/letter, I cannot believe any RFD would sell a .22lr or ammunition just on somebodies says so that they were running a miniature rifle range,

RFDs can and will. But generally will ask questions if unknown to them.

 

[Jagdmatch]

This is long overdue. A man in Hastings stole a .22 AR style rifle from a range using this exemption and murdered 2 women with it. I will challenge poor legislation all of the time but the requirement to be licences is hardly onerous.

 

[8x57]

This is long overdue. A man in Hastings stole a .22 AR style rifle from a range using this exemption and murdered 2 women with it. I will challenge poor legislation all of the time but the requirement to be licences is hardly onerous.

In the Hastings case it would not have made any difference whatsoever if a FAC was held by the range operator as the offender threatened him with the firearm in order to steal it. This could potentially have happened at any H. O. approved club or for that matter at any range in the country including police and military ranges.

I would suggest that those unfamiliar with the workings of a legitimate small-bore rifle club, not some "miniature rifle range" set up by unscrupulous persons in order to make a buck by circumventing the law, and discover how the proposed changes will place very serious impediments to those with an interest in taking up small-bore shooting. Small-bore rifle shooting is the gateway by which a very large number of shooters entered the sport of target shooting and even deer stalking in many cases.

 

[Jeff8861]

So they should what's the problem. I suspect there is a few range owners out there who will never get a fac.

 

[malmick]

I would suggest that those unfamiliar with the workings of a legitimate small-bore rifle club, not some "miniature rifle range" set up by unscrupulous persons in order to make a buck by circumventing the law, and discover how the proposed changes will place very serious impediments to those with an interest in taking up small-bore shooting. Small-bore rifle shooting is the gateway by which a very large number of shooters entered the sport of target shooting and even deer stalking in many cases.

Can you elaborate on what you mean here please? As far as I am aware from the outcomes from the 2022 consultation and governments responses and intentions the impact will be on miniature rifle range operators and not on legitimate small-bore rifle clubs. I am a long term member of both small-bore and full-bore rifle clubs and help a lot of people out getting into the sport.

Thanks,

Mick

 

[Eddie P]

So they should what's the problem. I suspect there is a few range owners out there who will never get a fac.

Remember your stance when they come for estate rifles. Currently you must be in sight and ear shot of the owner, so you can be left in a highseat on your own and them on the other side of the field. That will be the next "loophole" to be closed.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

I would suggest that those unfamiliar with the workings of a legitimate small-bore rifle club, not some "miniature rifle range" set up by unscrupulous persons in order to make a buck by circumventing the law, and discover how the proposed changes will place very serious impediments to those with an interest in taking up small-bore shooting. Small-bore rifle shooting is the gateway by which a very large number of shooters entered the sport of target shooting and even deer stalking in many cases.

Not asking to have a go at you, but how will this affect mini rifle ranges? There will be a requirement for the operator to have a FAC, but no new requirements for the range? Or is it that the operator with the FAC would need a condition for ‘use on a mini rifle range’ or would not have a sufficient ammo allowance?

 

[bowji john]

I’m intrigued too

I am a member of several shooting clubs and the owner of a miniature rifle range

I’m not aware that, aside from the sensible requirement for a range owner to have an FAC, that much has changed

The obligations for safety and good practice in range design and operation, although not stipulated in the regs, are still implied and are covered under other legislation

J

 

[badmolassesaccident]

Actually now that I think about it, it would be possible to prevent new mini rifle ranges from opening. By only giving them a 500 round ammo allowance or not wanting to give a condition on the FAC which allows the use in a mini rifle range.

 

[Heym SR20]

Remember your stance when they come for estate rifles. Currently you must be in sight and ear shot of the owner, so you can be left in a highseat on your own and them on the other side of the field. That will be the next "loophole" to be closed.

The actual wording in the Firearms Act. is “ the borrower is in the presence of the lender”. This is obviously open to interpretation.

But up here in Scotland this is generally accepted as close by and in direct control so you can intervene if required. Ie the lender can put his hand on the rifle and give direct instruction.

Police Scotland are taking a dim view on you being on one side of the field and the borrower on the other side and have referred cases for consideration to the Procurator Fiscal.

 

[Eddie P]

The actual wording in the Firearms Act. is “ the borrower is in the presence of the lender”. This is obviously open to interpretation.

But up here in Scotland this is generally accepted as close by and in direct control so you can intervene if required. Ie the lender can put his hand on the rifle and give direct instruction.

Police Scotland are taking a dim view on you being on one side of the field and the borrower on the other side and have referred cases for consideration to the Procurator Fiscal.

From the home office themselves (even less strict than I thought)... within ear shot means not even visible.

7.8 The lender must be present during the period during which the rifle or shot gun is
borrowed. Alternatively, the borrower must be in the presence of another person
who is aged 18 or over as described under either subsection 11A(5)(a) or (b) of the
1968 Act, provided that they hold a certificate in respect of the borrowed rifle or shot
gun. The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted
as being within sight or earshot.

 

[Andy RV]

It seems that the other, and it’s seems less known, element of this bill is to control the number of components which you can acquire based on your license limits, not good!