Living with the Fox. (Old Long Arse)

[User00036]

A lot of reads on here about killing foxes, but here's one about living with one. I used to have a zero tolerance to foxes on the farm, especially vixens & cubs, I hit them hard from Jan to April, removing residents from the farm & surrounding area. Hares, ground nesting birds, & wildlife numbers have increased dramatically since I invested in NV & Thermal, the yearly count of dead foxes especially in the first year has been staggering on this small farm, 75 in the first 6 months! Last year I never saw a fox from Harvest till January, so I must have been doing something right? With one noticeable exception. I have shot at it 3 times before I discovered point of aim had shifted. Had been shooting over bait points with a game camera, & now have the most wily crafty old dog fox I ever known. He is jinked by the IR flash on the game cams & won't feed on the same spot twice. I have a bait point on the paddock in front of the house, 150 yds from the bedroom window, I killed 7 foxes there this year, & missed him once. He now doesn't visit the farm house or buildings. I do think local foxes know more about us than we realise, they know our smell, where we live, they sit there & watch & listen & learn about our habits. And this ones learnt, he's clever, he's learnt to leave my geese & chickens alone, not to **** me off. To stay away from where I live. He's learnt about IR & Lamps (850 & 940 nm), turn your scope IR on & he doesn't just move, he bolts like a greyhound, & doesn't stop running, squeak at him he runs even faster, 2-3 fields away till he's out of sight.
My respect for this critter just grows & grows, & what a magnificent creature he is, he's huge, a proper dog fox with the largest brush I ever seen, one of the few decent pictures I have of him, outside of a hole, I have some blurry ones there as he takes off at speed at nighttime when the flash goes off, he started avoiding the hole at night time & now visits early morning.Can we coexist? I hope so, he probably takes the odd rabbit, keepers the meadows clean & for the moment I called a truce on old Long Arse, if I'm going to have a resident, than he's the one.

 

[DavyG]

Nice to see someone with a different attitude rather than the usual “fox showed up tonight and another happy chicken farmer”.
If he isn’t causing you any trouble, let him be.
But….

 

[Overlay]

A lot of reads on here about killing foxes, but here's one about living with one. I used to have a zero tolerance to foxes on the farm, especially vixens & cubs, I hit them hard from Jan to April, removing residents from the farm & surrounding area. Hares, ground nesting birds, & wildlife numbers have increased dramatically since I invested in NV & Thermal, the yearly count of dead foxes especially in the first year has been staggering on this small farm, 75 in the first 6 months! Last year I never saw a fox from Harvest till January, so I must have been doing something right? With one noticeable exception. I have shot at it 3 times before I discovered point of aim had shifted. Had been shooting over bait points with a game camera, & now have the most wily crafty old dog fox I ever known. He is jinked by the IR flash on the game cams & won't feed on the same spot twice. I have a bait point on the paddock in front of the house, 150 yds from the bedroom window, I killed 7 foxes there this year, & missed him once. He now doesn't visit the farm house or buildings. I do think local foxes know more about us than we realise, they know our smell, where we live, they sit there & watch & listen & learn about our habits. And this ones learnt, he's clever, he's learnt to leave my geese & chickens alone, not to **** me off. To stay away from where I live. He's learnt about IR & Lamps (850 & 940 nm), turn your scope IR on & he doesn't just move, he bolts like a greyhound, & doesn't stop running, squeak at him he runs even faster, 2-3 fields away till he's out of sight.
My respect for this critter just grows & grows, & what a magnificent creature he is, he's huge, a proper dog fox with the largest brush I ever seen, one of the few decent pictures I have of him, outside of a hole, I have some blurry ones there as he takes off at speed at nighttime when the flash goes off, he started avoiding the hole at night time & now visits early morning.Can we coexist? I hope so, he probably takes the odd rabbit, keepers the meadows clean & for the moment I called a truce on old Long Arse, if I'm going to have a resident, than he's the one.View attachment 311083

I spend a lot of time just watching foxes and they never cease to amaze on their greatest asset which is adaption, if they come across something that wasn’t there on a previous visit a smell or noise it’s checked out discreetly and worked around, I’ve seen them sit up out the way and just soak it up and surveying what’s occurring and they make a decision on what they see, hear and smell, more often than not they leave the area unnoticed they think and return later quietly and do the sit out the way check again until their senses say it’s ok and persistence is amazing they just keep coming back until they find a crack in the armour

commensal is definitely on their menu if on their terms

 

[User00036]

I spend a lot of time just watching foxes and they never cease to amaze on their greatest asset which is adaption, if they come across something that wasn’t there on a previous visit a smell or noise it’s checked out discreetly and worked around, I’ve seen them sit up out the way and just soak it up and surveying what’s occurring and they make a decision on what they see, hear and smell, more often than not they leave the area unnoticed they think and return later quietly and do the sit out the way check again until their senses say it’s ok and persistence is amazing they just keep coming back until they find a crack in the armour

commensal is definitely on their menu if on their terms

Agreed, they spend a lot of time watching & waiting, patience is one of their greatest assets. I wonder if this one has learnt the terms & conditions, it seems this way. The large print giveth, & the small print taketh away.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

I've often told people that I wish my labradors were as clever as old Charlie.
My dogs watch a bird fall on shoot days, when sent 90% of the time they return with the bird. Take the same bird,chuck it wherever you want on the estate, tomorrow morning it's a pair of wings if you've got Charlie about.
Watched them try hen house doors in several different places to see if there's a weak spot to get in. Seen them run along a breezeblock wall between units in a barn to keep out of the way of sows whilst checking for dead piglets. Vertical jump onto a foot wide circular bird table that was 4 feet off the ground to get to the food.
Worthy adversary old Charlie, highly adaptable and a skilled hunter.

 

[User00036]

I've often told people that I wish my labradors were as clever as old Charlie.
My dogs watch a bird fall on shoot days, when sent 90% of the time they return with the bird. Take the same bird,chuck it wherever you want on the estate, tomorrow morning it's a pair of wings if you've got Charlie about.
Watched them try hen house doors in several different places to see if there's a weak spot to get in. Seen them run along a breezeblock wall between units in a barn to keep out of the way of sows whilst checking for dead piglets. Vertical jump onto a foot wide circular bird table that was 4 feet off the ground to get to the food.
Worthy adversary old Charlie, highly adaptable and a skilled hunter.

Vulpines are quite similar to felines, they climb up anything, seen them at night on top of hay stacks, 30 ft up, running along walls in tenement flats 5 stories up in London, we once had a Rooster that roosted 20 foot up a fir tree, fox climbed up the ivy & pulled it down. RIP Jean Paul Pullait, kids were gutted.

 

[markj1]

Thank you for a well written piece.

I live in the central London, and we have lots of foxes (mostly red, but some grey ones) roaming our back gardens at night, and sometimes during the day. They are magnificent animals, very clever, and also very agile - their ability to climb fences is only exceeded by cats.

I do love to watch them, but I never get close or feed them, they are wild animals and I don't think that having domesticised pet-style interactions with humans is in their best interest.

They don't cause much trouble, though they can mess up the shed or the garden and rip bin bags etc from time to time. A large fox can might also try and get a smaller cat, but I think that's rare.

Personally, I grew fond of them and wouldn't dream of hunting them, but at the same time I do understand that in the countryside they can be a serious menace, threatening people's livelihoods (and by extension, our food supply). I am therefore very happy that you and your new friend manage to coexist.

 

[User00036]

Thank you for a well written piece.

I live in the central London, and we have lots of foxes (mostly red, but some grey ones) roaming our back gardens at night, and sometimes during the day. They are magnificent animals, very clever, and also very agile - their ability to climb fences is only exceeded by cats.

I do love to watch them, but I never get close or feed them, they are wild animals and I don't think that having domesticised pet-style interactions with humans is in their best interest.

They don't cause much trouble, though they can mess up the shed or the garden and rip bin bags etc from time to time. A large fox can might also try and get a smaller cat, but I think that's rare.

Personally, I grew fond of them and wouldn't dream of hunting them, but at the same time I do understand that in the countryside they can be a serious menace, threatening people's livelihoods (and by extension, our food supply). I am therefore very happy that you and your new friend manage to coexist.

Hopefully it can continue, but I have no doubt that it would be very different if there was an active earth on or near the farm, that's when the killing starts & boy, do they go to work. Longarse's two wives were on the paddock during the clicketing season, but they never left it.

 

[finnbear270]

In answer for those amongst us who may be carrying a perceived "Attitude", my instructions come from the person farming the land, if it's red it's dead on some ground, on others shoot the fox at your peril.

 

[jall55]

Thank you for a well written piece.

I live in the central London, and we have lots of foxes (mostly red, but some grey ones) roaming our back gardens at night, and sometimes during the day. They are magnificent animals, very clever, and also very agile - their ability to climb fences is only exceeded by cats.

I do love to watch them, but I never get close or feed them, they are wild animals and I don't think that having domesticised pet-style interactions with humans is in their best interest.

They don't cause much trouble, though they can mess up the shed or the garden and rip bin bags etc from time to time. A large fox can might also try and get a smaller cat, but I think that's rare.

Personally, I grew fond of them and wouldn't dream of hunting them, but at the same time I do understand that in the countryside they can be a serious menace, threatening people's livelihoods (and by extension, our food supply). I am therefore very happy that you and your new friend manage to coexist.

Its not just the food - its the damage they do to ground nesting birds

The OP though i think is very sensible - he has identified a fox holding territory and will keep others out - Hopefully limiting damage
Yes the resident may take the odd bird but maybe the better of the 2 situations and having a flood of incomers into the vacuum created.

Certainly food for though and a good source of discussion

 

[User00053]

Lot of work done on population dynamics of hill foxs in the past more of anything territorial smaller the territories, remove a pair creates vacuum at certain times of year which soon fills if fox’s at high densities.
Less fox’s over large areas given right habitat promotes other wildlife as demonstrated on areas of grouse moors with keepers at high density and partridge manors of the past.
Plenty low ground shoots have been put and take for a very long while with little need to control fox’s until rearing seasons all simple stuff just a case of weeding garden depending what you wish to grow and when.

 

[Tugmanade]

I liked taking a few photos & videos of this litter of cubs 3 years ago, saw them most mornings while walking the dogs. It was quite amusing watching my dogs watching them until they would eventually spot us. I found myself altering my route just to get the wind in my favor so I could creep up on them. The farmer on whose ground they were on liked them left to keep rabbit numbers down, supposedly

 

[RescueMe0007]

I was out reviewing some farmland yesterday with the land owner and he was commenting that the foxes in the area were causing him a problem by contaminating his cattle feed with their faeces, he had the name of the biological hazard it initiates but I do not recall it. I undertook to get out on his ground over the next week to see if I can reduce the numbers or at least act as some form of deterrence. I have foxes visit my garden pretty much every evening/night and hoover up any small titbits that we leave out and I don't bother them. There's nobody sheep farming locally, it's all dairy, store cattle or tillage so I have not been giving Charlie any attention, it would appear that I need to correct my approach.

 

[User00036]

I was out reviewing some farmland yesterday with the land owner and he was commenting that the foxes in the area were causing him a problem by contaminating his cattle feed with their faeces, he had the name of the biological hazard it initiates but I do not recall it. I undertook to get out on his ground over the next week to see if I can reduce the numbers or at least act as some form of deterrence. I have foxes visit my garden pretty much every evening/night and hoover up any small titbits that we leave out and I don't bother them. There's nobody sheep farming locally, it's all dairy, store cattle or tillage so I have not been giving Charlie any attention, it would appear that I need to correct my approach.

Neosporosis? causes abortion in cattle, transmitted through fox poo after eating contaminated grass! Dogs carry it as well. Nasty. Thee foxes eat afterbirth, & the cycle continues.

 

[User00036]

Lot of work done on population dynamics of hill foxs in the past more of anything territorial smaller the territories, remove a pair creates vacuum at certain times of year which soon fills if fox’s at high densities.
Less fox’s over large areas given right habitat promotes other wildlife as demonstrated on areas of grouse moors with keepers at high density and partridge manors of the past.
Plenty low ground shoots have been put and take for a very long while with little need to control fox’s until rearing seasons all simple stuff just a case of weeding garden depending what you wish to grow and when.

Nicely put, from my perspective fox shooting in the autumn & winter has little to do with controlling fox numbers it is about protecting pheasant poults. Foxes are transient at this time of year, especially cubs. If you want to control numbers, you stop them from breeding, its more beneficial to wildlife, its no coincidence that foxes have their young when all of nature is at its most vulnerable from predation. Take a wild bird off the nest & you lose future generations.

 

[User00053]

Nicely put, from my perspective fox shooting in the autumn & winter has little to do with controlling fox numbers it is about protecting pheasant poults. Foxes are transient at this time of year, especially cubs. If you want to control numbers, you stop them from breeding, its more beneficial to wildlife, its no coincidence that foxes have their young when all of nature is at its most vulnerable from predation. Take a wild bird off the nest & you lose future generations

Doors open fg, ex wild bird keeper and hard on fox’s all year but especially early spring through to late June.
Last thing you want is a move-in of Cubs in middle of you moor hoovering up chicks and poults and hens off nest
Quite scary to watch a dog fox hoovering up grouse chicks on industrial scale to regurgitate back at den.

 

[Longstrider]

I have farms on which the rule is that foxes take precedence where ammo usage is concerned. See it ... Shoot it. No matter if that rifle shot buggers up your carefully planned stalk on some CWD's out on the wheat.
Another farm I shoot on is purely arable and the owner sees the fox as a good controller of rats, mice, rabbits (if and when there are any rabbits) etc and has no real axe to grind with them. I often walk the dog on this chaps land and we regularly see "Old White-Tip" .. a very big old dog fox with a white-tipped brush. I know where the den is. I know where it runs most mornings and most evenings, and to take it with the .204 wouldn't be even the smallest of challenges. I could probably get close enough to safely take it with the .410, but there he is, still walking his routes and doing his thing. He occasionally gives the dog a bit of extra exercise, but other than that we leave him in peace.
It's really pleasant to see a really good healthy fox in the evening sunshine and know that he's doing no harm.

Unlike the big dog-fox that walked up the edge of the field full of ewes and lambs that I was watching last evening. He fell over .....

 

[BenBhoy]

It's really pleasant to see a really good healthy fox in the evening sunshine and know that he's doing no harm.

Does that arable farm no have any grey partridge? Skylark? Lapwing?

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
I “manage” foxes on a number of local small farms where hens/guinea fowl are commonplace and as a result frequently cause problems. I also do the same on our local syndicate shoot where we release a few hundred pheasants every year.
On the local farms my management is one of response to particular problems i.e. if a hen is taken the fox will be shot;
On my shoot management is one of 12 months of the year control with proactive rather than reactive shooting of foxes - no exceptions.
On those few farms where sheep are lambed it is again a case of 12 months proactive management particularly in the run up to lambing.
Sooo I guess you could say I only do what is necessary to deal with particular problems in different areas, this seems to work pretty well, judging by the number of “satisfied customers” who avail of my service. That said, I fully understand that my “generosity” would not work in commercial shoots.
I too am happy with my approach because I happen to think the fox is the most beautiful, intelligent, frustrating son of a bitch which deserves our full respect as this country’s ace predator. They are often the reason I get out of bed in the morning and quite frequently do not get into bed in the evening; they get me out into the country at hours when no-one else is about and enrich my day by my witnessing spectacular dawns and on occasion getting thoroughly soaked! Call me old fashioned or a romantic old fool but our beautiful countryside would be a very empty place without occasional sightings of old bushy legging it across a field - even if it did have one of our phezzies in it’s maw!
Of course shoot them if you must but never lose sight of their utter magnificence chaps.

 

[Smellydog]

Can't get them all but the drive to hunt them is rewarding in many other ways.
I was out until 11 last night and got a sighting. But what a beautiful evening to be out.

Out this morning before 4 and got another sighting but just couldn't get close enough and it slipped away. But what a lovely morning.

So much more to the job than just getting the fox.
The highlight of last night was watching a hobby catching beetles in front of me.
Where was Packham? Apart from up his own arse I mean !