A word of caution when near cattle.

[Jon P]

I helps that your farms over there are massive, it would be quite easily for a working dog in the U.K. to get the wrong side of a boundary fence as some of the premises would be a lot smaller.

Before Anyone says your dog should never get to far in front of you has never worked dogs before. At some time or other you will loose sight of your dog and the dog will find it’s easiest way back to you.

 

[308rws]

I think working dogs whilst at work are exempt, but isn’t the legal definition of dog control ‘on a lead of less than 2m in length’ or something like that?

I’m pretty sure it’s in the Countryside Rights of Way Act.

 

[Jon P]

I think working dogs whilst at work are exempt, but isn’t the legal definition of dog control ‘on a lead of less than 2m in length’ or something like that?

I’m pretty sure it’s in the Countryside Rights of Way Act.

They are, but a bit late stating this to the person who has just shot your dog that was the wrong side of a fence .

 

[patrickt]

A quick read and they had dogs with them. It was probably the dogs that made the cows aggressive and trample. The couple weren't the original target, but the automatic reaction of the dogs are to return to their owners feet and that made them the target unfortunately

How sad, but always remember, beast run towards dogs, and, in my experience also foxes, which is useful when out foxing!!, however sheep run away from dogs, and foxes in my experience, which is also useful when out foxing. . So if you have a dog and are chased by beast let the dog loose, they can out run beast, generally!!


Patrick

 

[Dunwaters]

Our rule here in law is that if you see a free roaming dog on your farming place you are legally entitled to shoot it.

That just won’t wash here.

 

[John Gryphon]

That just won’t wash here.

And that is a shame for the farmer.

 

[Dunwaters]

And that is a shame for the farmer.

If you say so, but these are crowded islands and dogs can’t read signs and don’t recognise boundary fences.
You might own the land, but you have to share reasonable access.
I’d be royally peed off if you slotted one of my pups for trespass.

 

[User00036]

All big livestock is dangerous.
Especially horses, they can and will, run both you and your dog down and kick and trample you both.
My father in law came for a walk with me once, there were cattle in the field, they chased the dog and the dog ran back towards us, he was a gentle man, but he kicked the dog away.
” Never let a dog hide behind you with cattle or horses around “ he said.
He was right.

Absolutely this!!! Most people train a dog to "come here" but they never train a dog to "GET OUT" be it a kitchen, dining room or field.

 

[Tagoat]

Absolutely this!!! Most people train a dog to "come here" but they never train a dog to "GET OUT" be it a kitchen, dining room or field.

A very firm "Get back!" is a command I was always told to teach.

 

[John Gryphon]

and dogs can’t read signs and don’t recognise boundary fences.

Yes of course but owners do, whether they take note of them is par for the course.

Nothing stops an idiot city dweller and dog more than traps laid and 1080 wild dog bait signs deployed lol.

 

[Dunwaters]

Yes of course but owners do, whether they take note of them is par for the course.

Not all dogs stay close, my pointers will regularly get out 100M or so, tracking hounds can easily be further away. If a deer crosses a boundary, the dog will follow.
If a dog is actually attacking livestock, I’ve no problem with a farmer defending his livelihood, but you can’t go around shooting dogs just because they’re there. The dog is worth more than a couple of woolies anyway.

Nothing stops an idiot city dweller and dog more than traps laid and 1080 wild dog bait signs deployed lol.

Again, we’re not in Oz, do that here and you’d find yourself sued into bankruptcy. Poison baits are banned except in very specific case, leg hold traps have been illegal for around 70 years.

As an aside, theres a lot of criticism of ignorant urbanites, theres no criticism at all of the shepherds who puts out flocks of animals that can’t run, can’t climb and can’t defend themselves in open unfenced areas or in fields adjacent to paths regularly accessed by the public and then expects everyone else to adjust their behaviour to accommodate them.
Maybe, just maybe we need to have that conversation.
Your sheep are your livelihood, not mine, and if what you’re doing isn’t working and is causing conflicts perhaps you should do something else. Maybe you could consider putting in a a few decent fences and protecting your livestock, rather than expecting everyone else to be pro active on your behalf.
Theres a lot of people using the countryside, and theres going to be a lot more, you can’t stop them and you’ll never educate them all.

 

[VSS]

If you say so, but these are crowded islands and dogs can’t read signs and don’t recognise boundary fences.
You might own the land, but you have to share reasonable access.
I’d be royally peed off if you slotted one of my pups for trespass.

And I'd be royally peed off if one of your pups was trespassing!
Owners can read signs, and it's a pretty poor handler who can't stop their dog at a boundary fence.
Cross the line, take the risk, but I'd value the life of my woollies much higher than the life of your dog.

 

[Dunwaters]

And I'd be royally peed off if one of your pups was trespassing!
Owners can read signs, and it's a pretty poor handler who can't stop their dog at a boundary fence.
Cross the line, take the risk, but I'd value the life of my woollies much higher than the life of your dog.

Well, you would say that wouldn’t you?
But trespassing is a civil offence and doesn’t merit extra judicial summary execution except in exceptional circumstances.
You can be as ticked off as you like ( just don’t run up to me shouting DUCK DUCK DUCK, that’s very contagious and I’ll probably shout duck duck duck right back ).
The fact that you put up a sign and that I can read it, doesn’t mean that I agree that you have the right to dictate how I behave on a public pathway. Being literate also doesn’t guarantee that I know where the boundary is, unless its fenced, which it often isn’t on open pasture or the uplands.
Look around. Police are not enforcing the laws of trespass, you’re on your own and theres a lot more trespassers every year.
The right to roam is now a fact because the public perceives it to be a fact, likes it, and is just doing it.
Frankly I don’t think that you can get the smoke back in the bottle.

 

[John Gryphon]

Owners can read signs, and it's a pretty poor handler who can't stop their dog at a boundary fence.

Exactly. If you cant whistle, buy one, train the dog to obey it. That is simple dog ownership.
Before dogs are let free they should be trained in the art of NOT chasing stock.

 

[User00036]

Slightly off topic but.. on the subject of training animals.
Sitting on the pavement in Lisbon city centre eating a sandwich, when this rather lovely pig came out of a shop, it saw my sandwich & wagged its tail. So I said to the pig "Sit" & it sat down. So I gave it my sandwich.
Smart pig, understands English!

 

[slider]

I

Before Anyone says your dog should never get to far in front of you has never worked dogs before. At some time or other you will loose sight of your dog and the dog will find it’s easiest way back to you.

But the problem is the dog not the man. Cattle will target the dog not the man. A man on his own can generally shoo away cattle but the problem comes when the dog comes back to the protection of its owner or the owner tries to rescue the dog. When confronted by cattle the last think you want to do is call the dog back to heel. Let it run away, it will be faster than the cows. If its on a lead let it off

 

[John Gryphon]

Well this out of control dog copped it sweet and its a lesson. Only the first 20 secs the rest is crap.
Love the way the bull stuts.

 

[mel b3]

Exactly the same here. Everyone seems to think people should be able to walk where they like, until they manage to buy a bit of land of their own, and then they go to great lengths to keep people off it, even to the extent of trying to get legal footpaths diverted.
Newbie smallholders and downshifters are often the most hypocritical as they're usually just the type of people who, in their former life, were campaigning for greater access to the countryside.

I'm quite the opposite. I've bought a couple of acres of woodland, and I've made sure that the people in the local area know that they're very welcome to use it ( not that their is are many people in the local area).
The way I see it is . Thanks to the generosity of (mainly)farmers over the years , I've been able to shoot and fish , over thousands of acres of land , so it would be a bit selfish of me to stop others from getting pleasure from my tiny plot.

 

[VSS]

I'm quite the opposite. I've bought a couple of acres of woodland, and I've made sure that the people in the local area know that they're very welcome to use it ( not that their is are many people in the local area).
The way I see it is . Thanks to the generosity of (mainly)farmers over the years , I've been able to shoot and fish , over thousands of acres of land , so it would be a bit selfish of me to stop others from getting pleasure from my tiny plot.

That's a nice touch.
Just be aware though that it could come back to bite you on the bum in future, if someone decides to claim a legal right of access through continuous usage. They'd probably drop that bombshell (in order to protect their interests) at the point that you decide to sell the property, which would seriously affect it's value.

 

[mel b3]

That's a nice touch.
Just be aware though that it could come back to bite you on the bum in future, if someone decides to claim a legal right of access through continuous usage. They'd probably drop that bombshell (in order to protect their interests) at the point that you decide to sell the property, which would seriously affect it's value.

In all honesty. I'd be quite happy with that , and if I did sell the land, I would have it written into the contract, that they kept a right of way through the land (as they walk through to visit the neighbour on the other side of the land), although , if it was used and abused by hundreds of people every day , I might see things differently.

When we first bumped into the owners of the neighbouring land , I offered them access , and use of my land , this was immediately welcomed by them , with an offer for me to use their land as well. We've now become quite friendly with the neighbours, and they often pop into the woodland when we're having a bbq , or doing a few targets with the guns . They've also told us where they hide the spare key to the house , so that we can use their landline , or stay at their house , should we ever get into trouble when they aren't at home .
Several other benefits of being friendly with the neighbours, are . Whenever they visit , they bring homemade, flapjacks , cakes , jams , and also , they used to be totally anti shooting townies , but now we've spent hours upon hours talking about shooting , and other fieldsports , they happily accept , venison , pheasant, trout , and have a much greater understanding of shooting folks.