I thank you all for your comments. Nothing that I haven't tried before has been said so it seems that tugging , pulling and profanity will continue into the future. I do agree that doing them as soon as possible helps, particularly if you have a young one to deal with, but when faced with an old buck nothing seems to make any difference. I did think about using the muscle power of my young son, as suggested above, but my young son is 61 years old and lives on the other side of the country to me. Don't think that will help very much. As I distribute most of my venison to the 'donating' farmers, friends and neighbours, with the rest going to deserving villagers I don't think I am going to get much assistance from that quarter either. No, it will just have to be slash and swear until the CWD and Roe's come back into season in November. But munties are excellent eating whatever their age.