WATOK / humane dispatch

[75]

Does anyone have any first hand experience of working for hunt kennels and dispatching livestock? I've been asked if I'd help as an interim measure but want to make sure I have everything in place I should (to protect both my FAC and the kennels as all this would be done very much above board if it were to happen).

I am clear that if I use a firearm then I need that rifle conditioned for humane dispatch and that shotgun is preferred method. I'm fine with the "how" and have done enough over the years but not in this capacity.

However, I am unclear if Certificate of Competence or WATOK license is also required in this context or if that is location dependant (regardless of the method of dispatch - captive bolt / shotgun / rifle)? It appears that I could dispatch on farm as a Competent Person (experience deer stalker and Hunt Servant both specifically mentioned in the guidance) but all the guidance I can find refers to "on farm" rather than if an animal was brought to the kennels to be dispatched. Seems like a grey area or maybe I just haven't tracked down the correct legislation yet?

I appreciate this is quite a specific query and PM may be the best way to avoid it degenerating into the normal "humane dispatch" thread (which crops up quite regularly!)

 

[Jon P]

Contact your FEO and get a humane killing for the named hunt on ticket if using firearms for dispatching animals. However 410 shotgun is the best.

To my knowledge you don’t need a certificate of competence as you are using a free bullet and animals are not entering the food chain.

 

[CookM]

See if you can't find a Humane Slaughter Association course somewhere near you.
They do run occasionally and can have people from different walks of life wanting to learn.
I waved my pass certificate at an FEO some years back.
It is interesting to attend.

 

[75]

Contact your FEO and get a humane killing for the named hunt on ticket if using firearms for dispatching animals.

yep, got this bit sorted.

To my knowledge you don’t need a certificate of competence as you are using a free bullet and animals are not entering the food chain.

This is but I’m unsure of. My understanding is the same as yours (whether using captive bolt or free bullet) that you don’t need CoC or WATOK unless entering food chain but I can’t find a conclusive answer anywhere.

 

[Jon P]

yep, got this bit sorted.



This is but I’m unsure of. My understanding is the same as yours (whether using captive bolt or free bullet) that you don’t need CoC or WATOK unless entering food chain but I can’t find a conclusive answer anywhere.

Slaughtering or killing outside of an FSA-approved slaughterhouse​

You must have either a Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing (WATOK) licence or a CoC to:

• work as a knackerman or at a knacker’s yard
• slaughter poultry, rabbits or hares on-farm to supply small amounts of meat direct to consumers or local retailers
• cull animals on a farm (except in an emergency, when the animal is injured or has a disease associated with severe pain or suffering and there is no other practical possibility to alleviate this pain or suffering)

The exemption is that you are killing injured animals with no practical possibility to alleviate pain or suffering

Get a certificate of competence or licence to slaughter or kill animals

The licence or certificate you need to slaughter or kill animals, the operations covered and how to apply.

www.gov.uk

If in doubt phone your local APHA office and get email confirmation from them on what they require locally.

As with a lot of Animal Health it is all a bit vague on details of different scenarios.

 

[75]

​

As with a lot of Animal Health it is all a bit vague on details of different scenarios.

Indeed! lots of conflicting advice, especially in the grey area of slaughter vs euthanasia.

The attached, for example, doesn’t mention WATOK or CoC: https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/workspace/pdfs/humane-slaughter-association-on-farm-euthanasia.pdf

 

[Jon P]

Indeed! lots of conflicting advice, especially in the grey area of slaughter vs euthanasia.

The attached, for example, doesn’t mention WATOK or CoC: https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/workspace/pdfs/humane-slaughter-association-on-farm-euthanasia.pdf

I cannot see a publication date for the document, it may of been published prior to new rules, if in doubt contact your local
APHA office, anything i euthanasia now is well past the point of no return so I know the exception apply to what I do.

 

[Klenchblaize]

With no desire to derail this thread are there any SD members with a VP9 condition for HD?

Strikes me as the perfect tool for the many & varied scenarios one might encounter, from full on deer RTC dispatch through to more rural incidents that would benefit from a “what the ear doesn’t hear it cannot be offended by” approach.

I found this interesting albeit the title less than helpful:


K

 

[Jon P]

I Have a .32 Walther PP pistol for HD on my ticket , was unrestricted for years, now restricted to a two shot.

 

[Slaughtermanste]

With no desire to derail this thread are there any SD members with a VP9 condition for HD?

Strikes me as the perfect tool for the many & varied scenarios one might encounter, from full on deer RTC dispatch through to more rural incidents that would benefit from a “what the ear doesn’t hear it cannot be offended by” approach.

I found this interesting albeit the title less than helpful:


K

These are about 4 grand way over priced,

 

[Slaughtermanste]

Does anyone have any first hand experience of working for hunt kennels and dispatching livestock? I've been asked if I'd help as an interim measure but want to make sure I have everything in place I should (to protect both my FAC and the kennels as all this would be done very much above board if it were to happen).

I am clear that if I use a firearm then I need that rifle conditioned for humane dispatch and that shotgun is preferred method. I'm fine with the "how" and have done enough over the years but not in this capacity.

However, I am unclear if Certificate of Competence or WATOK license is also required in this context or if that is location dependant (regardless of the method of dispatch - captive bolt / shotgun / rifle)? It appears that I could dispatch on farm as a Competent Person (experience deer stalker and Hunt Servant both specifically mentioned in the guidance) but all the guidance I can find refers to "on farm" rather than if an animal was brought to the kennels to be dispatched. Seems like a grey area or maybe I just haven't tracked down the correct legislation yet?

I appreciate this is quite a specific query and PM may be the best way to avoid it degenerating into the normal "humane dispatch" thread (which crops up quite regularly!)

You need a cpc, it replaced the license to kill about 10 years ago, you need to get a vet to come and witness every method you intend to use to get the licenceor cpc howeveryou look at it, my suggestion would be captive bolt and 410 shotgun however for a free bullet assessment I would use a 22 or 38/357. Have a look on the fsa website it will answer the questions fully,

Hope this helps

Steve

 

[75]

Have a look on the fsa website it will answer the questions fully,

it doesn’t unfortunately - unless I’m missing something? FSA covers human consumption, which this definitely isn’t.

Seems to be a grey area between slaughter for food (very clear), emergency euthanasia on farm (very clear) and non-emergency and non-food dispatch.

 

[Slaughtermanste]

There is no grey area you need a licence

Knacker's yards and farms: restraining, stunning and killing animals

Know which licence or certificate you must have to restrain, stun or kill animals which are not for human consumption, and how to carry out these operations.

www.gov.uk

 

[75]

There is no grey area you need a licence

Knacker's yards and farms: restraining, stunning and killing animals

Know which licence or certificate you must have to restrain, stun or kill animals which are not for human consumption, and how to carry out these operations.

www.gov.uk

Whilst I’m pretty sure I agree with you in principle (and with a username like that I suspect you know your craic!)…

• That link isn’t the FSA (which you quoted earlier).
• It references WATOK or Certificate of Competence as per my Op not “cpc” which you stated.
• It deals with knackers yard premises and doesn’t clearly cover slaughter on a farm premises. There is no intent to bring live animals onto hunt premises.

I think this page is the relevant stuff ( Get a certificate of competence or licence to slaughter or kill animals) but the grey area as I see it is on farm slaughter of stuff that isn’t an immediate emergency and isn’t restrained but is end of life etc (I’ve deleted some other bullets but this is one of the examples):

When you do not need a WATOK licence​

You do not need a WATOK licence if you:

• kill an animal in the field using a firearm with a free bullet (like a shotgun), if the animal will not be eaten by people

So can i do a horse in a field (which the vet has said is ready to go) if it is on a loose halter and isn’t in a dedicated restraining equipment without WATOK?

 

[Slaughtermanste]

Cpc means certificate of professional Competence!
I think your one of them people who want to fight the system, do what you wish however when it backfires the will come for your fac!
Good luck whatever you decide

 

[VSS]

I think your one of them people who want to fight the system,

It's a system that needs fighting.
It's a ridiculous state of affairs that a farmer or smallholder now can't kill his own sheep or pig for his own personal consumption without a load of bits of paper.
I wish the OP every success in exploiting every potential loophole, and I hope more people will do the same.
In the meantime, carry on as before, but quietly

 

[Slaughtermanste]

It's a system that needs fighting.
It's a ridiculous state of affairs that a farmer or smallholder now can't kill his own sheep or pig for his own personal consumption without a load of bits of paper.
I wish the OP every success in exploiting every potential loophole, and I hope more people will do the same.
In the meantime, carry on as before, but quietly

They can they are exempt from the legislation, non of what you have put is relevant to this situation

 

[VSS]

They can they are exempt from the legislation, non of what you have put is relevant to this situation

You're right. I apologise for my outburst. I misread the guidance the first time around, and thought I might be prevented from doing what I've been doing for the last 35 years. Thanks for pointing it out

 

[75]

Cpc means certificate of professional Competence!

Is that the same as a Certificate of Competence (CoC)? Get a certificate of competence or licence to slaughter or kill animals

I think your one of them people who want to fight the system, do what you wish however when it backfires the will come for your fac!
Good luck whatever you decide

It was a genuine question- I’m not looking to exploit the system but was looking for clarity not patronising. SD is the wrong place for that of course

Happy to go down the WATOK route if required, but if it’s not then why should I go though that (the cost wouldn’t cover the APHA vet’s fees to make the site visit and assessment so it’s a cost to the taxpayer for a start. Plus, do I need assessment on every potential farm I could be called out to? I repeat, nothing live arrives on site).

So, back to my OP (and still a very genuine question but) - without WATOK (or CoC) can I kill livestock, on farm, not for human consumption, not restrained, not in an immediate emergency euthanasia situation?

If you can point me in the direction of the clear guidance on this I would be very grateful.

 

[Slaughtermanste]

Maybe take up crosswords because I really don't think your going to be able to cope with this killing game