Hilux early chassis fail: rust perforation after 7 years and just 44k miles of road use in U.K.

[Free range rob]

There may be something in that: I have always kept the vehicle clean. Multiple "Platinum" washes per year which include underbody hosing.

I now suspect that the absence of a crud barrier has left the chassis exposed to rock salt through the winter, however often I washed it off.

I think you may be into something here.
My ranger lives in a mud bog through all the winter, twice a day feeding animals upto it’s axles in mud, and I simply don’t have time or inclination to get it on ramps and wash it every day.
Every mot I get two comments, one is how clean the emissions are from it, and second is how the chassis looks almost new
The one thing I expected to rot out and it still has most the original paint on it still.

Or was it the diesel cans leaking in the back

 

[zambezi]

I replaced the 7 year-old Hilux with a 2023 registered Isuzu D-Max.

The D-Max is a good drive and seems a competent platform...but...

...new technology being forced on the automotive industry by the EU [and mirrored here] means the following features are mandatory:

• Emergency braking. If the "AI" watching the road ahead decides to put the brakes on, you will come to a juddering halt. It has done that 4 times already. For no good reason. [e.g. vehicles ahead stopped suddenly but well within my reaction capability. Vehicles behind did not expect me to make emergency stop. The road to my house always has a car parked on the far side verge around a tight bend. The braking alarm never fails to freak out when it is surpised by that... It has even triggered its heads-up braking lights and alarm because the lane I was in had low hanging tree branches! Oh, and you cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Lane departure. AI decides if you are tracking within your lane. It gets that wrong. Often. You cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Tracking/journey recording. This bit is a little less clear. The facts are: The vehicle runs a satellite tracking system and is fitted with a 10-year GSM SIM card that allows the vehicle to make calls. This is sold as a positive: if you crash, the car calls emergency services. The reality is that the totality of your vehicle usage is trackable and there is a network mechanism for report retrieval. Fact: the dealerships can access video clips of the road ahead taken by your vehicle of the last 10 activations of emergency braking. They do not know whether other video collection is stored or accessed. Given the software behind the dash is "ApplePlay, I have a strong hunch on this one.
• Speed restriction sign misreads. The "AI" often misses speed restriction signs. Fair enough, perhaps some signs could do with a wash. But...it also sometimes reads signs on side roads as you go past junctions! So you will have the dash alarm beeping at you for maintaing the correct 40mph speed for the carriageway on which you are driving because a side-road was signed at 30mph.

As bad as that stuff is, I was advised that driver-facing cameras are being fitted from this year [already in some 2023 vehicles], and breathalysers from next year. [I.e. car engine will not start if driver fails breathalyser]

My net take away: if you can keep your pre-2019 pick up running, do that. I now wish I had pushed for a replacement chassis for the 7-year old Hilux.

 

[75]

Pedant warning but it's not "AI" - if it was AI it would be a learning platform and it isn't. It makes the same errors repeatedly (like emergency braking on the same parked car). If it did learn then it would probably be pretty good!

Otherwise, I completely agree - this stuff just has too many downsides to be useful for me. Lane departure stuff for example is fine on motorways and dual carriageways but a complete pain on rural country roads where it is often fighting you back into the verge.

 

[Jh1986]

I replaced the 7 year-old Hilux with a 2023 registered Isuzu D-Max.

The D-Max is a good drive and seems a competent platform...but...

...new technology being forced on the automotive industry by the EU [and mirrored here] means the following features are mandatory:

• Emergency braking. If the "AI" watching the road ahead decides to put the brakes on, you will come to a juddering halt. It has done that 4 times already. For no good reason. [e.g. vehicles ahead stopped suddenly but well within my reaction capability. Vehicles behind did not expect me to make emergency stop. The road to my house always has a car parked on the far side verge around a tight bend. The braking alarm never fails to freak out when it is surpised by that... It has even triggered its heads-up braking lights and alarm because the lane I was in had low hanging tree branches! Oh, and you cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Lane departure. AI decides if you are tracking within your lane. It gets that wrong. Often. You cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Tracking/journey recording. This bit is a little less clear. The facts are: The vehicle runs a satellite tracking system and is fitted with a 10-year GSM SIM card that allows the vehicle to make calls. This is sold as a positive: if you crash, the car calls emergency services. The reality is that the totality of your vehicle usage is trackable and there is a network mechanism for report retrieval. Fact: the dealerships can access video clips of the road ahead taken by your vehicle of the last 10 activations of emergency braking. They do not know whether other video collection is stored or accessed. Given the software behind the dash is "ApplePlay, I have a strong hunch on this one.
• Speed restriction sign misreads. The "AI" often misses speed restriction signs. Fair enough, perhaps some signs could do with a wash. But...it also sometimes reads signs on side roads as you go past junctions! So you will have the dash alarm beeping at you for maintaing the correct 40mph speed for the carriageway on which you are driving because a side-road was signed at 30mph.

As bad as that stuff is, I was advised that driver-facing cameras are being fitted from this year [already in some 2023 vehicles], and breathalysers from next year. [I.e. car engine will not start if driver fails breathalyser]

My net take away: if you can keep your pre-2019 pick up running, do that. I now wish I had pushed for a replacement chassis for the 7-year old Hilux.

Currently have a 2023 Nissan Juke on work hire whilst my new Ranger is 'in transit'.

Agreed on the emergency collision system. It's ridiculous and will stall the engine which cannot simply be restarted by depressing the clutch. You have to do a full stop/start procedure. It winds me up no end.


Want to move your car back an inch on your driveway? Need the seatbelt on for that. Can't open the door to have a look at parking markings either, it'll throw the handbrake on.

 

[Morkai]

I replaced the 7 year-old Hilux with a 2023 registered Isuzu D-Max.

The D-Max is a good drive and seems a competent platform...but...

...new technology being forced on the automotive industry by the EU [and mirrored here] means the following features are mandatory:

• Emergency braking. If the "AI" watching the road ahead decides to put the brakes on, you will come to a juddering halt. It has done that 4 times already. For no good reason. [e.g. vehicles ahead stopped suddenly but well within my reaction capability. Vehicles behind did not expect me to make emergency stop. The road to my house always has a car parked on the far side verge around a tight bend. The braking alarm never fails to freak out when it is surpised by that... It has even triggered its heads-up braking lights and alarm because the lane I was in had low hanging tree branches! Oh, and you cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Lane departure. AI decides if you are tracking within your lane. It gets that wrong. Often. You cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Tracking/journey recording. This bit is a little less clear. The facts are: The vehicle runs a satellite tracking system and is fitted with a 10-year GSM SIM card that allows the vehicle to make calls. This is sold as a positive: if you crash, the car calls emergency services. The reality is that the totality of your vehicle usage is trackable and there is a network mechanism for report retrieval. Fact: the dealerships can access video clips of the road ahead taken by your vehicle of the last 10 activations of emergency braking. They do not know whether other video collection is stored or accessed. Given the software behind the dash is "ApplePlay, I have a strong hunch on this one.
• Speed restriction sign misreads. The "AI" often misses speed restriction signs. Fair enough, perhaps some signs could do with a wash. But...it also sometimes reads signs on side roads as you go past junctions! So you will have the dash alarm beeping at you for maintaing the correct 40mph speed for the carriageway on which you are driving because a side-road was signed at 30mph.

As bad as that stuff is, I was advised that driver-facing cameras are being fitted from this year [already in some 2023 vehicles], and breathalysers from next year. [I.e. car engine will not start if driver fails breathalyser]

My net take away: if you can keep your pre-2019 pick up running, do that. I now wish I had pushed for a replacement chassis for the 7-year old Hilux.

Id look for a company or a plug and play product that will remove all that rubbish for you.

It's easily avaible for Audi/VW/BMW, might be harder to find for Isuzu.

 

[sh1kar]

I replaced the 7 year-old Hilux with a 2023 registered Isuzu D-Max.

The D-Max is a good drive and seems a competent platform...but...

...new technology being forced on the automotive industry by the EU [and mirrored here] means the following features are mandatory:

• Emergency braking. If the "AI" watching the road ahead decides to put the brakes on, you will come to a juddering halt. It has done that 4 times already. For no good reason. [e.g. vehicles ahead stopped suddenly but well within my reaction capability. Vehicles behind did not expect me to make emergency stop. The road to my house always has a car parked on the far side verge around a tight bend. The braking alarm never fails to freak out when it is surpised by that... It has even triggered its heads-up braking lights and alarm because the lane I was in had low hanging tree branches! Oh, and you cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Lane departure. AI decides if you are tracking within your lane. It gets that wrong. Often. You cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Tracking/journey recording. This bit is a little less clear. The facts are: The vehicle runs a satellite tracking system and is fitted with a 10-year GSM SIM card that allows the vehicle to make calls. This is sold as a positive: if you crash, the car calls emergency services. The reality is that the totality of your vehicle usage is trackable and there is a network mechanism for report retrieval. Fact: the dealerships can access video clips of the road ahead taken by your vehicle of the last 10 activations of emergency braking. They do not know whether other video collection is stored or accessed. Given the software behind the dash is "ApplePlay, I have a strong hunch on this one.
• Speed restriction sign misreads. The "AI" often misses speed restriction signs. Fair enough, perhaps some signs could do with a wash. But...it also sometimes reads signs on side roads as you go past junctions! So you will have the dash alarm beeping at you for maintaing the correct 40mph speed for the carriageway on which you are driving because a side-road was signed at 30mph.

As bad as that stuff is, I was advised that driver-facing cameras are being fitted from this year [already in some 2023 vehicles], and breathalysers from next year. [I.e. car engine will not start if driver fails breathalyser]

My net take away: if you can keep your pre-2019 pick up running, do that. I now wish I had pushed for a replacement chassis for the 7-year old Hilux.

My 2022 hilux 1 and 2 can be switched off
S

 

[Morkai]

If anyone wants to permanently turn off those features on a VW group vehicle the product is called OBDeleven.

 

[RTAW85]

I replaced the 7 year-old Hilux with a 2023 registered Isuzu D-Max.

The D-Max is a good drive and seems a competent platform...but...

...new technology being forced on the automotive industry by the EU [and mirrored here] means the following features are mandatory:

• Emergency braking. If the "AI" watching the road ahead decides to put the brakes on, you will come to a juddering halt. It has done that 4 times already. For no good reason. [e.g. vehicles ahead stopped suddenly but well within my reaction capability. Vehicles behind did not expect me to make emergency stop. The road to my house always has a car parked on the far side verge around a tight bend. The braking alarm never fails to freak out when it is surpised by that... It has even triggered its heads-up braking lights and alarm because the lane I was in had low hanging tree branches! Oh, and you cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Lane departure. AI decides if you are tracking within your lane. It gets that wrong. Often. You cannot turn this feature off permanently.
• Tracking/journey recording. This bit is a little less clear. The facts are: The vehicle runs a satellite tracking system and is fitted with a 10-year GSM SIM card that allows the vehicle to make calls. This is sold as a positive: if you crash, the car calls emergency services. The reality is that the totality of your vehicle usage is trackable and there is a network mechanism for report retrieval. Fact: the dealerships can access video clips of the road ahead taken by your vehicle of the last 10 activations of emergency braking. They do not know whether other video collection is stored or accessed. Given the software behind the dash is "ApplePlay, I have a strong hunch on this one.
• Speed restriction sign misreads. The "AI" often misses speed restriction signs. Fair enough, perhaps some signs could do with a wash. But...it also sometimes reads signs on side roads as you go past junctions! So you will have the dash alarm beeping at you for maintaing the correct 40mph speed for the carriageway on which you are driving because a side-road was signed at 30mph.

As bad as that stuff is, I was advised that driver-facing cameras are being fitted from this year [already in some 2023 vehicles], and breathalysers from next year. [I.e. car engine will not start if driver fails breathalyser]

My net take away: if you can keep your pre-2019 pick up running, do that. I now wish I had pushed for a replacement chassis for the 7-year old Hilux.

I agree with the sentiment around the additional technology but all new cars will have it fitted including, in the near future, the inability to go beyond the speed limit read by the camera (EU legislation which I cannot recall the implementation date on). I have a 22 plate Ford Ranger and it has all the additional tech but is easier to turn it off manually. I also have a 16 plate D Max which I am pondering parting with or not due to it being so techless. My brother has a newer DMax which I have been testing for the last few weeks as he is upgrading soon.
Re. the Isuzu lane departure: it can be permanently turned off at dealer. I had my brothers turned off this week. They have to ask Isuzu corp for a pin code (4-5 working days lead time). I am sure you know this but, the warning beeping for the speed signs can be turned off in menu so that it only flashes on the dash which is liveable with and actually useful at times. The emergency braking sensitivity can be changed in settings on the menu which will alleviate some of your frustration. Failing all those things, you can permanently turn them all off by blocking the camera with tape and it just shuts the features down. The motor will ding when you start it up and there will be a few extra lights on the dash. Next time it rains, don't turn in your wipers for a while and you'll see what I mean. Cheers.

 

[zambezi]

you can permanently turn them all off by blocking the camera with tape and it just shuts the features down

Yes. But surely that courts insurance claim rejections? I.e. in the event of an accident, whether or not your fault, the disablement of any system on your vehicle might be the basis for declaring that your insurance is invalidated.

And yet, the official Isuzu manual [below] acknowledges you will need to turn the emergency braking off under certain conditions...many of which are typical in most of my rural Devon journeys. By 2025, discretionary driver disablement of emergency braking is removed by EU legislation.

 

[gixer1]

I agree with the sentiment around the additional technology but all new cars will have it fitted including, in the near future, the inability to go beyond the speed limit read by the camera (EU legislation which I cannot recall the implementation date on). I have a 22 plate Ford Ranger and it has all the additional tech but is easier to turn it off manually. I also have a 16 plate D Max which I am pondering parting with or not due to it being so techless. My brother has a newer DMax which I have been testing for the last few weeks as he is upgrading soon.
Re. the Isuzu lane departure: it can be permanently turned off at dealer. I had my brothers turned off this week. They have to ask Isuzu corp for a pin code (4-5 working days lead time). I am sure you know this but, the warning beeping for the speed signs can be turned off in menu so that it only flashes on the dash which is liveable with and actually useful at times. The emergency braking sensitivity can be changed in settings on the menu which will alleviate some of your frustration. Failing all those things, you can permanently turn them all off by blocking the camera with tape and it just shuts the features down. The motor will ding when you start it up and there will be a few extra lights on the dash. Next time it rains, don't turn in your wipers for a while and you'll see what I mean. Cheers.

I doubt they can force the speed limit thing as many cars may well be used in other countries and if I went to buy a car and they said it had a limiter that couldn’t be switched off - I’d be looking elsewhere.

Absolutely ridiculous nanny state.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Morkai]

Yes. But surely that courts insurance claim rejections? I.e. in the event of an accident, whether or not your fault, the disablement of any system on your vehicle might be the basis for declaring that your insurance is invalidated.

And yet, the official Isuzu manual [below] acknowledges you will need to turn the emergency braking off under certain conditions...many of which are typical in most of my rural Devon journeys. By 2025, discretionary driver disablement of emergency braking is removed by EU legislation.

View attachment 322534 View attachment 322535

Get the coding done on the vehicle, have it permanently disabled and just declare to your insurance that your vehicle is modified so they cant reject a claim.

 

[Donkey Basher]

Have already been thinking that as & when the time comes to pension off the D4 I won't replace it but instead will live with the additional fuel consumption of the D2 - a 19 year old motor with no rust, a recent new MOT and very few bonging noises, certainly none of the nonsense mentioned above. only slight issue might be the availability of petrol...

Can sympathise with the OP though as the Sprinter van I drive for work has collision avoidance braking which goes off at random, often due to a car passing in the other direction or a bit of bramble sticking out of a hedge! It also has automated SOS function as well as a manual button for the same - I found the manual button one night in the dark whilst searching for the interior light switch so I could see to find my glasses... it cannot be cancelled once activated and you have to explain to the call handler why you set it off! We also have GPS tracking which monitors speed & how I laugh when the weekly 10% over speed report comes down & I am told I should not have been doing 60 in a 50 limit only to show the manager on street view that its not a 50 limit & I can legally do 60!

Big brother is watching you!

 

[Morkai]

As the Dmax can do car speed limits you'd hope the speed signs aren't a problem.

Do other pickups with sign reading caneras that cant do legally 60mph on a single carriageway know to set the vehicle to 50mph?

 

[Morkai]

Have already been thinking that as & when the time comes to pension off the D4 I won't replace it but instead will live with the additional fuel consumption of the D2 - a 19 year old motor with no rust, a recent new MOT and very few bonging noises, certainly none of the nonsense mentioned above. only slight issue might be the availability of petrol...

Can sympathise with the OP though as the Sprinter van I drive for work has collision avoidance braking which goes off at random, often due to a car passing in the other direction or a bit of bramble sticking out of a hedge! It also has automated SOS function as well as a manual button for the same - I found the manual button one night in the dark whilst searching for the interior light switch so I could see to find my glasses... it cannot be cancelled once activated and you have to explain to the call handler why you set it off! We also have GPS tracking which monitors speed & how I laugh when the weekly 10% over speed report comes down & I am told I should not have been doing 60 in a 50 limit only to show the manager on street view that its not a 50 limit & I can legally do 60!

Big brother is watching you!

On a single CW your Sprinter can only do 50mph legally, is that why they're pulling you up on speeding or was it on a dual CW?

 

[Donkey Basher]

On a single CW your Sprinter can only do 50mph legally, is that why they're pulling you up on speeding or was it on a dual CW?

Dual carriageway that they think is 50 because it only has a single lane on one side of the CENTRAL RESERVATION - they never learn even though I show them the big sign on streetview that says 'dual carriageway' every time.

The other one I love hitting is a piece of country road with national speed limit coming out of a village that has a 20mph limit - there's about 3/4 mile of national speed limit that the system believes is still 20mph, I don't drive it that often but when I do I make sure I get close to 50 on it then wait for the invitation to the 'meeting without coffee' the next day as 30% overspeed come down overnight - new managers think they've got me banged to rights & get very carried away when I act all 'couldn't care less' about it then, when they've been wound up enough I show them where the 20 zone ends and ask them to show me exactly where I was speeding...

 

[Morkai]

Dual carriageway that they think is 50 because it only has a single lane on one side of the CENTRAL RESERVATION - they never learn even though I show them the big sign on streetview that says 'dual carriageway' every time.

The other one I love hitting is a piece of country road with national speed limit coming out of a village that has a 20mph limit - there's about 3/4 mile of national speed limit that the system believes is still 20mph, I don't drive it that often but when I do I make sure I get close to 50 on it then wait for the invitation to the 'meeting without coffee' the next day as 30% overspeed come down overnight - new managers think they've got me banged to rights & get very carried away when I act all 'couldn't care less' about it then, when they've been wound up enough I show them where the 20 zone ends and ask them to show me exactly where I was speeding...

We get the same at our place.

The van speed limits are pretty dumb too seeing as once registered as camper its got car speed limits.

 

[zambezi]

Re. the Isuzu lane departure: it can be permanently turned off at dealer. I had my brothers turned off this week. They have to ask Isuzu corp for a pin code (4-5 working days lead time)

Well...I asked my local dealership for this and they said they do not believe it is possible, but they would ask Isuzu GB.

A week later they confirmed that NO changes can be made to the vehicle.

So...can you state which dealership/chain was able to extract the "pin code" from Isuzu GB and how that request should be phrased to avoid a refusal?

 

[Macazimbo]

I bought a Hilux new in 2016 from my local U.K. dealer because of its acclaim on multiple continents by a range of users and media reviewers.

Since new, I have completed 44k miles [average of 6.4k p.a.] almost exclusively on tarmac in the U.K.

Out of the blue, the vehicle was declared to have failed its 4th MOT due to rust perforation of chassis within 40cm of a suspension point. The dealership and Toyota Customer relations are not interested in considering this to be a premature failure. CR make the point that the Toyota warranty is only for painted body sections. [see below]

I am disappointed in equal measure that (1) the failure could occur in so short time frame due to such benign usage (2) that the dealership that serviced the vehicle from new and who performed every MOT failed to flag the onset of rust at a point at which prevention could happen and (3) Toyota CR have no desire to make good.

If you buy a second hand Hilux, check the chassis. In particular, the OSR section.




View attachment 292705

Hey Zambezi, did you ever get anywhere with this... I have exactly the same issue with my 2015 Hilux Invincible )turns out not invincible at all). Have an ongoing discussion with my local dealer and taking it in for them to photograph next week. Worked for Toyota for 10 odd years, in Africa, and never came across anything like this, one of the reasons I went for a Hilux.

I bought a Hilux new in 2016 from my local U.K. dealer because of its acclaim on multiple continents by a range of users and media reviewers.

Since new, I have completed 44k miles [average of 6.4k p.a.] almost exclusively on tarmac in the U.K.

Out of the blue, the vehicle was declared to have failed its 4th MOT due to rust perforation of chassis within 40cm of a suspension point. The dealership and Toyota Customer relations are not interested in considering this to be a premature failure. CR make the point that the Toyota warranty is only for painted body sections. [see below]

I am disappointed in equal measure that (1) the failure could occur in so short time frame due to such benign usage (2) that the dealership that serviced the vehicle from new and who performed every MOT failed to flag the onset of rust at a point at which prevention could happen and (3) Toyota CR have no desire to make good.

If you buy a second hand Hilux, check the chassis. In particular, the OSR section.




View attachment 292705

Hey Zambezi, did you ever get anywhere with this... I have exactly the same issue with my 2015 Hilux Invincible )turns out not invincible at all). Have an ongoing discussion with my local dealer and taking it in for them to photograph next week. Worked for Toyota for 10 odd years, in Africa, and never came across anything like this, one of the reasons I went for a Hilux.

 

[Macazimbo]

Some more pics. I would really appreciate others who own 2016 Hilux to post comparative pics.

View attachment 293492 View attachment 293493 View attachment 293494 View attachment 293495

I have an appointment with my local dealer next week to take some pics of my 2015 Invincible, which I'll share. Interesting that in the USA/ Canada they had a recall on the Tacoma for rust on the frames/ chassis.

 

[Macazimbo]

Anyone fancy a class action in the U.K.?

I'm in!