The Benefits of Using Non-Toxic Bullets for Deer Management in the UK

[Mungo]

Utter no nonsense and a very good example of arse licking if I may say.
I think the prat that wrote about water contamination is going to look real dumb when he looks at his or his neighbours roof!
Muppet.

It’s not written by a human. It’s generated by AI.

 

[Smellydog]

It’s not written by a human. It’s generated by AI.

A dumb computer then. Even better.

 

[LuckyEddie]

However, it's crucial to balance these perceived benefits with the significant drawbacks associated with lead ammunition:

Environmental Impact: Lead is toxic to humans and wildlife, and lead poisoning from spent lead ammunition has been a serious concern for animals that ingest lead-contaminated fragments or prey. This has led to population declines in certain species, especially scavengers like eagles and vultures.

I have not heard of eagles being poisoned this way in Britain.

Human Health Concerns: Lead exposure, especially through inhalation of lead dust at shooting ranges, can lead to lead poisoning and various health issues, including cognitive impairment, especially in children.

How much lead dust is there on a firing range and how much is needed to be inhaled to give health issues. Also how many children are anywhere near a location that they can ingest lead by whatever means to become ill. More likely to get it from lead paint on Chinese made toys - as has been the case.

Ecosystem Contamination: Lead from spent ammunition can leach into the soil and water, contaminating ecosystems and posing a risk to plants, animals, and aquatic life.

You’re more likely to get lead flashing on roofs oxidising and leaching lead into the soil than ammo. If a round is buried the oxidation should take decades to occur if at all - unless the soil is very acidic or alkaline and has enough gaps for air to get in (oxidation I believe is when a material reacts with oxygen).

Alternative Materials: Copper and other non-lead alternatives have been developed to address the environmental and health concerns associated with lead ammunition. These alternatives offer comparable ballistic performance while reducing the risk of lead exposure.

You put the same amount of copper into the ground as there is lead and show me there isn’t a problem. There has been a case in Scotland where school pipes caused blue water because of the copper issues. Or iron, I can take you into tunnels in Glasgow where the water runs orange due to the iron oxide.

Regulations and Bans: Many regions and countries have implemented regulations or outright bans on lead ammunition to mitigate its negative impacts on the environment and health.

And?

 

[Selous]

Yeah because a sharred or copper in a hawks gut or dog's is way better than lead

Errr yes in fact it is better to have copper shard instead of lead, particularly in birds where the lead is ground down further in the gizzard to a smaller particle size that is more readily reactive and then absorbed

 

[Smellydog]

Errr yes in fact it is better to have copper shard instead of lead, particularly in birds where the lead is ground down further in the gizzard to a smaller particle size that is more readily reactive and then absorbed

Yes but copper won't be ground and scratch or lacerate the gut. May as well feed them glass.

Like I said, get a metal detector.

 

[Jon P]

I have not heard of eagles being poisoned this way in Britain.

Quick google search so May be biased like most of the info found online

Lead ammunition poisoning Europe's birds of prey | Natural History Museum

Toxic lead ammunition is putting Europe's birds of prey under threat.

www.nhm.ac.uk

 

[Jon P]

Yes but copper won't be ground and scratch or lacerate the gut. May as well feed them glass.

Like I said, get a metal detector.

Easier using non lead ammunition for me, hawks are quite good at removing larger non digestible particles in their daily pellets

 

[Selous]

Yes but copper won't be ground and scratch or lacerate the gut. May as well feed them glass.

Like I said, get a metal detector.

Errr, no … again

 

[Smellydog]

Easier using non lead ammunition for me, hawks are quite good at removing larger non digestible particles in their daily pellets

But not lead. Your saying they will spit some copper out but not lead?

 

[Smellydog]

Errr, no … again

So you think the gizzard will grind copper?

 

[Jon P]

But not lead. Your saying they will spit some copper out but not lead?

Lead is more toxic then copper for hawks- it is not rocket science. I have seen your posts in the past, I know you are not a fool.

 

[Jon P]

@Smellydog
To try and make this simple- in the U.K. they add copper to cattle feed - why ? Because cattle benefit from it

How much lead is added to animal feed in the U.K. ? ZERO because it is TOXIC .

Animal feed in the U.K. is checked that it does not contain lead - how do I know that ? Because it is part of my job

Hope that helps

 

[Smellydog]

@Smellydog
To try and make this simple- in the U.K. they add copper to cattle feed - why ? Because cattle benefit from it

How much lead is added to animal feed in the U.K. ? ZERO because it is TOXIC .

Animal feed in the U.K. is checked that it does not contain lead - how do I know that ? Because it is part of my job

Hope that helps

Copper in metallic shard form is not added to cattle feed. The shards you maybe giving your birds may not be as poisonous as lead but may do damage in another way.
Get a metal detector.

Your right, I'm no fool. Using a non lead bullet to save a bird from lead poisoning but potentially forcing a sharp fragment of copper down its throat isn't a healthy option either.

 

[HonestJohn]

Copper in metallic shard form is not added to cattle feed. The shards you maybe giving your birds may not be as poisonous as lead but may do damage in another way.
Get a metal detector.

Your right, I'm no fool. Using a non lead bullet to save a bird from lead poisoning but potentially forcing a sharp fragment of copper down its throat isn't a healthy option either.

Monolithics generally don’t leave fragments behind, often retaining near 95% weight or more. The lost 5% or so, will typically be lost on immediate impact and not within the consumable meat or vitals, as opposed to lead based bullets where they act similarly on impact, but continue to lose weight and fragment on passing through

 

[Sampo]

What best to advertise than getting AI to tell you stuff. Seems to be the new trend and like a decade ago when people used to say 'Its ok Wikipedia', these days its 'ChatGPT said so'. All of these programs can be trained to say whatever the forces behind it wants it to say and as technology seems to get smarter, the average person seems to be compromising with their intellect over the years.

For those who want something different to ChatGPT, theres Bard from google which seems to be connected to internet for real time updates. So it even shows up the current non toxic shotgun catridges available for the same query.

 

[HonestJohn]

Uni students will be loving AI for ‘writing’ papers, esp if searches never return the same identical answer. @Mungo , assume you have had the discussions at your work

 

[Smellydog]

Monolithics generally don’t leave fragments behind, often retaining near 95% weight or more. The lost 5% or so, will typically be lost on immediate impact and not within the consumable meat or vitals, as opposed to lead based bullets where they act similarly on impact, but continue to lose weight and fragment on passing through

Then you are using the wrong lead bullet.
This one didn't leave much lead!

And if you study recovered lead bullets you often find they retain most of themselves to similar values you give monolithic!

 

[Jon P]

Copper in metallic shard form is not added to cattle feed. The shards you maybe giving your birds may not be as poisonous as lead but may do damage in another way.
Get a metal detector.

Your right, I'm no fool. Using a non lead bullet to save a bird from lead poisoning but potentially forcing a sharp fragment of copper down its throat isn't a healthy option either.

the shards of metal you talk about are not an issue for a start hawks only get slithers of venison , my eyesight is good enough to see a foreign body in the meat.

If a lump on metal of any type was eaten, by some chance of me feeding my hawk blindfolded then the hawk would regurgitate the lump of metal the same as bits off bone on feather / fur.

This issue is smaller dust particles off lead that would be digested as it is TOXIC .

The copper dust if any is NOT toxic.

You are getting hung up on shards of mental getting into the gut- shards of metal won’t get into a gut of a hawk as they empty crop every day with non digestible items- lead dust is digestible and TOXIC

I am starting to think that you are just playing to fool so you have someone to talk to

 

[HallyButt]

i recover a lot on a through and through , just look for a skid in the grass but a few literally use up what they have left ans apparently fall down . What do folks think about where the 30% weight loss ended up when you re-cover a lead bullet from a beast ? You fancy that in your evening meal ? I dont but i do suspect it didn't do me any good along with working with asbestos and welding with no greater than a paper mask if that ! Now where the f*** are then dammed marbles !? LOL
On terminal effect on deer i would honestly carry on with Barnes TTSX on deer if they dropped the whole lead thing

Sako copper blade out perform Sako lead in both accuracy and terminal impact in both of my deer rifles, I wouldn’t go back to lead for deer

 

[StephenToast]

It’s an AI system that generates text using probability based on enormous datasets. Essentially, the program just predicts likely text based on what people have said before.

What is the point of it?