Refusal advice

[SC3]

Hello all. Some months ago I'd put in for a shot gun certificate, a little time went by and I got a call from the firearms enquiry officer, we had a quick chat and he suggested getting a cabinet to speed things up for the interview stage, so I did that.

The interview came and went well. We discussed the process where he said background checks were done before he called me and everything checked out fine. After our sit down chat over coffee he inspected the cabinet and said he's happy to grant the certificate.

Roll on one month later (yesterday), I get a letter from the Police saying that they are refusing my application, because of public safety concerns, relating to domestic abuse allegations made by my ex. Now, the domestic abuse allegations were of 'coercive and financial control' - nothing physical at all. At no point have the police ever visited me about this or made any contact what so ever. I had no knowledge about these allegations until a few years ago when it was brought up at family court. I suspect she made these allegations on advice, to make things more difficult for me at family court.

So, I guess now I'm looking for advice on where to go. Leave it? Appeal? Talk to the enquiry officer again? They literally were allegations with no basis or evidence, that I didn't even know about at the time.

Appealing through the court, likely to cost thousands, before even considering the costs if I lose. It might sound silly but this really has knocked me for six, it's such a stain on my character over allegations which aren't even true.

I can still go to the clay ground as I have been, with my friend, which always was the intention anyway, I'd rather do it with a friend as it's more fun, but in principle I'm really bothered that some allegations, false ones, years ago are what I'm being judged by today.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

 

[longtail22]

It’s not something I’m an expert or but you can appeal this, if you’re a member of basc they can give you more firm advice on the subject. I would start with the police firearms guidance. Chapter 20. https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/1116230/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf

 

[Greenmist]

Were you convicted of anything?

 

[SC3]

No, unfounded allegations only, which sadly happens during an acrimonious split.

 

[eggy74]

Unfortunately the police cannot tell if they are unfounded or not. Did you contest the accusation at all when you were first aware of it? how old are the allegations? personally i would talk to the feo and ask if it is worth leaving it a certain amount of time and re-applying, and what you can do in the meantime to appear better in their eyes, maybe join a club, get instruction, do safety courses, take part in comps, all as proof you are a competent and safe shot.

 

[Greenmist]

I'd write to the firearms manager an explain the details, include dates and the outcomes. As you weren't convicted there should be no case to answer.

 

[Greenmist]

Unfortunately the police cannot tell if they are unfounded or not. Did you contest the accusation at all when you were first aware of it? how old are the allegations? personally i would talk to the feo and ask if it is worth leaving it a certain amount of time and re-applying, and what you can do in the meantime to appear better in their eyes, maybe join a club, get instruction, do safety courses, take part in comps, all as proof you are a competent and safe shot.

The police can tell, he wasn't convicted of anything

 

[Donkey Basher]

It’s not something I’m an expert or but you can appeal this, if you’re a member of basc they can give you more firm advice on the subject. I would start with the police firearms guidance. Chapter 20. https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/1116230/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf

I have a feeling that BASC no longer provide refusal/revocation cover with their member insurance? - maybe @Conor O'Gorman can confirm one way or the other?

 

[andyk]

From what you say, you might consider an appeal. Generally speaking, Judges will take a more critical approach as to evidence than the police will and perhaps be better at deciding whether the available evidence shows, on the balance of probabilities, that you aren’t suitable.

For the police, it is also easier to err on the side of caution. If they permit the application, and something happens, they will inevitably face criticism for not refusing based on the DA allegation. If they’re told to give you a license by a Judge, then there’s no issue (for them).

However, if you’re thinking of an appeal, consider that (a) you won’t recover your costs, the exception is where the police are found to have behaved wholly unreasonably or improperly, not just that they made the wrong call, and (b) ask yourself very carefully (trying to be objective) whether there is anything in your background which could justify the police stance. That last point is crucial, if there’s some behaviour that could justify the decision, but your view is that it can be explained away with other evidence, then your prospects will get a lot worse, as you’re relying on your explanation being accepted.

 

[andyk]

Also, did the Judge in the family proceedings make any findings as to the DA allegation?

 

[SC3]

Unfortunately the police cannot tell if they are unfounded or not. Did you contest the accusation at all when you were first aware of it? how old are the allegations? personally i would talk to the feo and ask if it is worth leaving it a certain amount of time and re-applying, and what you can do in the meantime to appear better in their eyes, maybe join a club, get instruction, do safety courses, take part in comps, all as proof you are a competent and safe shot.

When I was first aware of them, was via the paper work in the family court hearing. I then did a subject access request to try and find out what was going on. I did call the Police at the time to ask them what it means and the person on the phone pretty much said not to worry about it as it was only an allegation.

I'll certainly be approaching the FEO to try and understand what happened between him saying yes, he's happy and then where I am now.

I will probably still attend the club with my friend, I'll certainly consider some safety courses.

 

[SC3]

I'd write to the firearms manager an explain the details, include dates and the outcomes. As you weren't convicted there should be no case to answer.

I'll consider that, as I certainly would like to understand what this all means.

 

[SC3]

Also, did the Judge in the family proceedings make any findings as to the DA allegation?

So far there's not been any behaviour as such, as nothing had happened, the Police hadn't even made a visit on that basis.

Sadly the judge in family court did make the findings, based on the balance of probability. So basically as my ex made the allegations to the Police, it probably happened. The judge , refused to answer me when I asked for the proof, what did I control and how? Even when I could prove that it's more likely she financially used me (she had a credit card, she would spend, I'd pay it off).

Going off topic a little, but I believe my ex acted under advice - looming family court case, get. some accusations in and make them believable.

 

[Greenmist]

I'll consider that, as I certainly would like to understand what this all means.

I'm not giving advice on a my mate heard basis, I've been the subject of an allegation and had all firearms seized, BASC were no help at all, and this was prior to the removal of legal cover. I don't think you should go down the route of appeal as I don't see what there is to appeal against. You were not convicted of a crime, can I ask if you were interviewed under caution about the allegation's

 

[SC3]

I'm not giving advice on a my mate heard basis, I've been the subject of an allegation and had all firearms seized, BASC were no help at all, and this was prior to the removal of legal cover. I don't think you should go down the route of appeal as I don't see what there is to appeal against. You were not convicted of a crime, can I ask if you were interviewed under caution about the allegation's

No, I have had no contact with the Police what so ever about them apart from when I called them to ask them what it means, when I found out through the family court.

Basically, my ex called them long after we've split, to back date some claims as soon as I said I'd take her to family court.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Ask the police concerned what the appeal procedure is , they are obliged to tell you and also ask for a full breakdown of the decision and what evidence was used to make that decision.

Basically nag them. They really don’t deserve to have these things quietly accepted.

 

[longtail22]

I have a feeling that BASC no longer provide refusal/revocation cover with their member insurance? - maybe @Conor O'Gorman can confirm one way or the other?

I think though they still offer advice in the firearms department. I see the odd question in the quarterly magazine, they just won’t fight your corner.

 

[cjm1066]

BASC, NGO and no doubt other organisations will give advice if you are a member.

Join one ask for advice and get your evidence lined up, before reapplying for a certificate.

That is likely to be quicker and cheaper than an appeal.

For either option you need your evidence sorted, whats the relationship with the ex, might she support your good behaviour during a difficult time? It's a question likely to be asked.

I feel for you, my ex constantly threatened a spurious allegation so I would loose my FAC, in the end I used my solicitor to make her " put up or shut up". It solved that issue.

 

[SC3]

Ask the police concerned what the appeal procedure is , they are obliged to tell you and also ask for a full breakdown of the decision and what evidence was used to make that decision.

Basically nag them. They really don’t deserve to have these things quietly accepted.

I will ask them, I suspect they'll enter no further into a conversation than informing me that I can appeal through the crown court.

 

[SC3]

BASC, NGO and no doubt other organisations will give advice if you are a member.

Join one ask for advice and get your evidence lined up, before reapplying for a certificate.

That is likely to be quicker and cheaper than an appeal.

For either option you need your evidence sorted, whats the relationship with the ex, might she support your good behaviour during a difficult time? It's a question likely to be asked.

I feel for you, my ex constantly threatened a spurious allegation so I would loose my FAC, in the end I used my solicitor to make her " put up or shut up". It solved that issue.

No, my ex is a very toxic person, I want nothing to do with her, so we don't speak.