Possession of ammunition components with the intent to illegally manufacture Section 1 ammunition.

[25 Sharps]

(c)he holds a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of a relevant kind;

Surely a relevant kind is the type to take primers they are buying?

​

how do yiu int​

Relevant kind is a centrefire cartridge.

Section 11 states

11)In this section—

• “ammunition of a relevant kind” means ammunition for a firearm of a relevant kind;
• “enactment” includes an enactment passed after the passing of this Act;
• “firearm of a relevant kind” means a firearm other than a shot gun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition.

So ANY centrefire is a firearm of the relevant kind by the definition of the act as it is not a shotgun or rimfire. You do not need to have a calibre that shoots LR primers to buy them as long as you own a centrefire.

 

[25 Sharps]

Please state on what bases you think it is wrong.

The basis is the definition of the ‘relevant kind of firearm’ as defined by the act, and unites in my post above.

 

[malmick]

This thread still doing the rounds?
No pun intended (well almost none).

 

[Eddie P]

Relevant kind is a centrefire cartridge.

Section 11 states

11)In this section—

• “ammunition of a relevant kind” means ammunition for a firearm of a relevant kind;
• “enactment” includes an enactment passed after the passing of this Act;
• “firearm of a relevant kind” means a firearm other than a shot gun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition.

So ANY centrefire is a firearm of the relevant kind by the definition of the act as it is not a shotgun or rimfire. You do not need to have a calibre that shoots LR primers to buy them as long as you own a centrefire.

I missed that bit, thanks.

 

[25 Sharps]

I missed that bit, thanks.

So, it seems, do most RFDs

 

[Lee260]

I’m aware of the difference between upholding the law and enforcing the law.
Notwithstanding, what happens to your guns while the CPS make their mind up ?

Your replies would indicate otherwise.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Your replies would indicate otherwise.

Ooooh! Do tell ?
I know the difference, but really ! I’m on a knife edge waiting for your educational version

 

[timbrayford]

And what has that got to do with it?
The only scenario I can think of is the one you have described ie, someone attempting to purchase inappropriate primers for the firearms on their ticket which could indicate intent to manufacture ammunition which they have no authority to hold, in which case upon presenting their ticket to purchase such items the RFD would presumably say "I can't sell you those"?

Everything

 

[Liveonce]

The basis is the definition of the ‘relevant kind of firearm’ as defined by the act, and unites in my post above.

interesting but does it not depend on the interpretation on relevant kind, ie if you only have a rifle that uses large rifle primers how are small pistol primers relevant kind?

 

[25 Sharps]

interesting but does it not depend on the interpretation on relevant kind, ie if you only have a rifle that uses large rifle primers how are small pistol primers relevant kind?

No, the whole of section 11 is giving definitions for the terminology. The definition given is very clear and specifically chosen, it makes no mentions of the various types of primer or cartridge types. If that is what the law makers intended it to be interpreted as that is how it would be clarified.

Relevant kind does not refer to the type of primer at all, it refers to the firearm, there is no distinction in primer type.

In short, it’s there written in law, in black and white!

 

[palmer_mike]

interesting but does it not depend on the interpretation on relevant kind, ie if you only have a rifle that uses large rifle primers how are small pistol primers relevant kind?

Is there such a thing as a rifle that only takes a certain size of primer? It may be (a lot) less common but it’s possible to buy cases (or have them manufactured) with different sizes primer pockets……. Ie small primers in .308 etc.

Come to think of it brass shotgun shells commonly take large centre fire primers so anyone with a 12ga should be allowed to buy these?

 

[bowji john]

A lot of RFDs are not so interested in interpreting the law as avoiding trouble and losing their license

I can’t blame them really

 

[Liveonce]

Is there such a thing as a rifle that only takes a certain size of primer? It may be (a lot) less common but it’s possible to buy cases (or have them manufactured) with different sizes primer pockets……. Ie small primers in .308 etc.

Come to think of it brass shotgun shells commonly take large centre fire primers so anyone with a 12ga should be allowed to buy these?

indeed but if a rifle case it would still be a large or small rifle primer not a pistol primer.

And that did indeed cause a problem for people using brass shotgun shells to home load when the 2006 violent crime reduction bill became law, you cannot buy metallic primers using a shotgun certificate. A member in the Clay club I was also a member of wrote to the Home Office complaining about just that and to summarise their reply, their function is not one of saving shooters money.

 

[JTO]

I have a 22 hornet rifle which uses small primers and I have used both small pistol and small rifle primers.
An RFD refusing to sell small PISTOL primers because someone has RIFLE chambered for cartridges that can use both small rifle and small pistol primers simply does not know the law

Cheers

Bruce

A chap in a club that I belonged to had a Thompson Contender single shot pistol chambered for .22 Hornet.
What sort of primers should he be using, rifle or pistol?

 

[kenbro]

Not what I said and not what I meant.
Let me make it simpler.
A non FAC holder could legally buy a complete reloading set up in terms of a press, dies, primer tool etc as there is no restriction on them, but why would a non FAC holder do that if not to load what must be illegal ammunition?
Does possession of such equipment in such circumstances not suggest the intention to use it?
I suppose a non FAC holder who is the owner of a retail business that sells this equipment might have good reason to be in possession maybe?

The non cert holder that buys reloading kit can just tell the police or any other interested party that he intends applying for a FAC.
ken.

 

[mealiejimmy]

A chap in a club that I belonged to had a Thompson Contender single shot pistol chambered for .22 Hornet.
What sort of primers should he be using, rifle or pistol?

I notice you said "had" so I think the issue of legally possessing the pistol is bigger that what primers he could use in it.
Hypothetically he could use either small pistol or small rifle.
As has already been clarified, the law makes no mention of the type of primer - it simply says that primers can be possessed by certificate holder with permission to possess ammunition of a relevant kind. Since a 22 hornet can use both small pistol and small rifle primers, then someone with a 22 hornet on the FAC can quite legally purchase either type of primer.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[25 Sharps]

Is there such a thing as a rifle that only takes a certain size of primer? It may be (a lot) less common but it’s possible to buy cases (or have them manufactured) with different sizes primer pockets……. Ie small primers in .308 etc.

Come to think of it brass shotgun shells commonly take large centre fire primers so anyone with a 12ga should be allowed to buy these?

In terms of shotgun they can’t, unless they have an FAC with a centrefire on it. Shotguns do not fall under the definition of the relevant kind of firearm so, even attempting to purchase them is an offence

 

[Triggermortis]

How about a section 1 shotgun or a shot pistol (sec 5) conditioned on a sec1 FAC?

 

[25 Sharps]

How about a section 1 shotgun or a shot pistol (sec 5) conditioned on a sec1 FAC?

No, because neither are a relevant kind of firearm, again it’s there in black and white.

 

[Triggermortis]

How so?