First foray into ‘premium’ scopes? What would be good?

[T.eddie]

At the risk of putting my head above the parapet id say look at vortex, I bought the hoghunter scope, brand new for I think £200 and it worked well on my .243 as it now does on my .308 and the lifetime warranty is an added bonus. Im yet to be convinced that a couple more minutes of light is worth an extra 0. Ive also got a meopta optika 6 which ive not had a chance to use yet but have looked through at varying times of the time out the window and im impressed with that and they seem to get good reviews, think this was £700 new so I would assume you could get a 2nd hand one for c£500

 

[baguio]

I’m probably going to upset some on here, but I don’t see the point of sticking really expensive glass onto hunting rifles.

My scopes are delta, Rudolph, Nikon and nikko Stirling, with the most expensive being the delta at c£800, and they all perform perfectly for their role, ie enabling me to hit animals at my chosen distances, as well as target shoot out to 600m with ease.

I have also done a lot of target shooting at Bisley and regularly out performed people with serious kit (Sako trg with £2.5k s&b glass on it) with my old rem700 and MTC taipan scope!! So it’s not the kit that makes the difference!

Yes, good glass will let in more light, but would you want to be taking shots at a deer if you couldn’t see what was behind it? I wouldn’t. Plus the normal range in the UK for most hunting is <200m, so in reality a 3-9x40 scope is ‘enough’ to hunt with, and all of the extras are really just to make the shot a little bit easier.

My suggestion would be to go up a notch into the premium normal scope range and see how you fare. If you shoot well and don’t find it limits you then you have found your scope. But simply whacking a grand+ of glass on your rifle won’t make you a better shot!

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. I have shot numerous deer at last knockings when I have been out with stalkers with lesser scopes who couldn't see the deer clearly and turned down the shot. If I'm being paid to stalk, I have spent time and fuel driving to an area. I want to maximise my chances by not quiting earlier than the law allows. That last 10 minutes is important to me anyway. If I'm sat up a seat I can look down rides and know that I'm not going to hit a stray walker!
Target shooting is usually done in very good light conditions so the glass quality is less important I'm sure. However the OP is talking about hunting not target shooting.

 

[baguio]

Only sub 12 air rifle at the moment, but just with an idea for it to be a really good big of kit that I never get rid of. (I understand that a premium scope on an air rifle is a bit mad…)

In that case, do not get a fixed 8 power scope of any make. It will be rubish for close range air rifle hunting. 3-12x would be much better.

 

[25 Sharps]

I’ve been on a similar journey starting out sub 12 which still remains but now spend majority of my time using FAC:air, RF and CF…..but still have a place for my sub-12.

For RF the Air rifle scope manufacturers transfer easily across. A reasonable scope with SF works perfectly well on my WMR and an Optisan 4x16x44 is perfect. Picked one up for £120 delivered second hand, and used with an add on.

Similar story with my LR.

I have though moved up a grade for CF, and my .243 has a 2.5x15x42 Bushnell 6500. Good option and as SF can stick on an add on for Fox if needed. Think it was about £300 second hand. It’s good for daytime stalking too - so although others may disagree - will definitely do a job for you.

However, my 308 is dedicated for Deer so have sourced a Zeiss second hand and £500 seems a figure that you will need to pay.

Overall though, take a look around for a Bushnell 6500, good option at your price point. Japanese made and will give me an image not far off my Zeiss at dusk.

The bushnell won’t be a patch on any of the top makes, I’ve owned 2 and still have a DMR. Good for the price point but if the OP wants to delve into premium that is not what the bushy offers.

 

[25 Sharps]

I’m probably going to upset some on here, but I don’t see the point of sticking really expensive glass onto hunting rifles.

My scopes are delta, Rudolph, Nikon and nikko Stirling, with the most expensive being the delta at c£800, and they all perform perfectly for their role, ie enabling me to hit animals at my chosen distances, as well as target shoot out to 600m with ease.

I have also done a lot of target shooting at Bisley and regularly out performed people with serious kit (Sako trg with £2.5k s&b glass on it) with my old rem700 and MTC taipan scope!! So it’s not the kit that makes the difference!

Yes, good glass will let in more light, but would you want to be taking shots at a deer if you couldn’t see what was behind it? I wouldn’t. Plus the normal range in the UK for most hunting is <200m, so in reality a 3-9x40 scope is ‘enough’ to hunt with, and all of the extras are really just to make the shot a little bit easier.

My suggestion would be to go up a notch into the premium normal scope range and see how you fare. If you shoot well and don’t find it limits you then you have found your scope. But simply whacking a grand+ of glass on your rifle won’t make you a better shot!

For casual target in the day then there is no need for premium glass, hunting is a different ball game.

First and last light make a difference to success, the amount of times I have all but given up sat in a seat for fallow and seeing nothing, then they come out of the woods right on last light like ghosts. That is when premium glass comes into its own as you can see, often brighter than the naked eye, and well enough for the shot.

As for the assumption you can’t see behind the deer, if you know your ground or have been sat in a seat you know whats behind it and this can also be confirmed with a thermal.

Better glass generally equates to more opportunity which should equate to more deer….

Not really required for air rifle shooting where anything you can legally shoot at night you can just drop NV or a lamp on.

 

[sh1kar]

Hi All,

At the moment most of my hunting is with air rifles, but looking to move to fac in the future…

Up until now I’ve used scopes at the more budget end of their spectrum, bought new. I was wondering if I was to invest in some proper glass which would last me (leupold, S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski etc) what would be good to look out for in terms of particular models?

Nothing too big, budget around £300 so will obviously have to be second hand and of a certain vintage.

Where would be somewhere good to start?

Any tips or advice appreciated!

Patrick

Great second hand range

R. Macleod & Son - The Scottish Firearm & Optical Dealer

Here at R. Macleod & Son, we stock the best Firearm & optical equipment & Clothing. Visit our website to browse our wide range.

rmacleod.co.uk

 

[Navarone]

Speaking for myself, l shoot only “handbag” deer on lowland agricultural land, and l never shoot beyond 200 yards. (And that far only if l have no choice.) 90% of my deer are shot at between 100 and 150 yards.

My main stalking rifle is fitted with a Schmidt u. Bender 3-12 x 50 Klassik ‘scope; my .223 with a large Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 x 50 (IIRC). Both rifles were bought secondhand; both had those ‘scopes already fitted.

I wouldn’t feel hard done by to use a fixed-power 6x or 8x ‘scope, although the option of higher- or lower power is occasionally nice.

I’d look for a used Hungarian S&B or comparable model in those powers, or a new Hawke zoom.

maximus otter

Thanks for all this info seems a very fair interpretation…

 

[Navarone]

I’m probably going to upset some on here, but I don’t see the point of sticking really expensive glass onto hunting rifles.

My scopes are delta, Rudolph, Nikon and nikko Stirling, with the most expensive being the delta at c£800, and they all perform perfectly for their role, ie enabling me to hit animals at my chosen distances, as well as target shoot out to 600m with ease.

I have also done a lot of target shooting at Bisley and regularly out performed people with serious kit (Sako trg with £2.5k s&b glass on it) with my old rem700 and MTC taipan scope!! So it’s not the kit that makes the difference!

Yes, good glass will let in more light, but would you want to be taking shots at a deer if you couldn’t see what was behind it? I wouldn’t. Plus the normal range in the UK for most hunting is <200m, so in reality a 3-9x40 scope is ‘enough’ to hunt with, and all of the extras are really just to make the shot a little bit easier.

My suggestion would be to go up a notch into the premium normal scope range and see how you fare. If you shoot well and don’t find it limits you then you have found your scope. But simply whacking a grand+ of glass on your rifle won’t make you a better shot!

Completely understand this and agree tbh. It’s not so much about that for me though, it’s purely a nice thing to have an own more so. Also I’m in no way talking about a grand+ I’m really talking about up to 500 ish top whack second hand.

 

[Navarone]

Great second hand range

R. Macleod & Son - The Scottish Firearm & Optical Dealer

Here at R. Macleod & Son, we stock the best Firearm & optical equipment & Clothing. Visit our website to browse our wide range.

rmacleod.co.uk

Thank you, looks a good shout!

 

[Zetter]

To be honest with the amount of Day night scopes out i.e. Pulsar C50 etc at the moment they are looking a serious alternative to spending premier scope money to get those last few minutes of light at last knockings. Having got one on my .243 even without IR they gone on well beyond even a premier scope would give up the ghost.

 

[TringSaint]

For casual target in the day then there is no need for premium glass, hunting is a different ball game.

First and last light make a difference to success, the amount of times I have all but given up sat in a seat for fallow and seeing nothing, then they come out of the woods right on last light like ghosts. That is when premium glass comes into its own as you can see, often brighter than the naked eye, and well enough for the shot.

As for the assumption you can’t see behind the deer, if you know your ground or have been sat in a seat you know whats behind it and this can also be confirmed with a thermal.

Better glass generally equates to more opportunity which should equate to more deer….

Not really required for air rifle shooting where anything you can legally shoot at night you can just drop NV or a lamp on.

I don’t shoot from highseats so I’m always at ground level on open ground and all of my perms have footpaths running through them, so I always want to see what is around. Still I am out pre-dawn and will be looking to take deer at first light and have never had any issue with any of my ‘middle of the road’ scopes.

My only woodland gun has a 2.5-15 mag Rudolph in it which is super in low light and was £350 new iirc.

 

[3595wilk]

The bushnell won’t be a patch on any of the top makes, I’ve owned 2 and still have a DMR. Good for the price point but if the OP wants to delve into premium that is not what the bushy offers.

OP mentioned £300 as a pricepoint - hence the suggestion of the 6500.

OP talked about a certain price so the Bushnell is a compromise compared to others but will do a job at that price especially if they are looking for it to cover different functions on a .243.

An older German fixed mag would be ideal if it's just for deer, but if to be used for other uses, the Bushnell is a potential compromise.

 

[kenbro]

Hi Patrick, I bought a Zeiss Duralight 3 to 12 by 50mm illuminated. It is superb. The illumination is variable, and only the centre dot lights up. Thoroughly recommend it. I see other people have advised some others, many going for the 8 by 56. I think the variable is more universal.

I agree on the variable and as nun_hunter said earlier, 8 power can be too much in woodland.
Ken.

 

[Rural Management Services]

If you want a Jack of all trades then it needs to be a variable one. Yes an 8x56 or 6x42 will shoot you deer. Probably many millions of deer have met their makers via a fixed power scope in fact.

If you want versatile though or something you won’t be swapping out in a few years when your shooting career changes track go variable. Modern variable scope transmit just as much light as older design fixed ones and they give you that flexibility that fixed don’t I am afraid. I like 2.5-15xXX or similar but that is my personal preference many others will have theirs but that kind of mag range allows for all the below:-

For example woodland stalking walk around in summer on 4 or 6 times to give you wide FOV, but have the option to crank it up if you want to pick out a gap in brambles for a roe or muntjac shot. Or drop it down to 2.5 say to get max FOV and track that roe buck who is charging around in the rut.

On the hill again aquire your target on 6 or 8 times and if you have time crank it up to place your shot exactly where you want it. Fixed scopes tend to have thicker reticles when compare to variable scopes.

Variables in the 2.5-15 or similar range will have side parallax allowing you to buy a cheap pard and start foxing or shoot boar etc.

In Europe people even use 2.5-15 type scope for driven hunting at minimum mag (although if you are going to that kind of expense probably a red dot or 1-6 might be an investment).

I have never seen a fixed scope with ballistic turrets (standby for someone who has though), meaning you can’t go to a range and start leaning the art of dialing in at range. Or at least not without a zeroing session before going home.

Downsides to varaible scopes in the interests of fairness.

With red dots, variable mag and ballistic turrets going on there is allot of knobs and buttons to play with. I have seen many a guy loose a deer because he was on a silly mag range to start with or because he wanted to dial in the shot on a 130 yard deer.

Red dots can be left too brights and basically trash someone’s night vision.

A fixed scope is going to be more robust because it’s got less moving parts. I would imagine in fact you could use an S&B 8x56 for humane dispatch and it wouldn’t loose zero.

I am afraid though that a varaible for £300 isn’t going to to give you your premium glass fix. So maybe look middle tier second hand Delta or GPO or Hawke (Sidewinder or better though). You will need to add £200 ish to your budget but as you don’t have an FAC yet and the waiting time is generally 6-18 months I guess you can save. It will be worth it though as you will get more use and keep said scope longer.

I will now take cover as the fixed mag boys prepare their artillery.

 

[20-250]

Do yourself a favour.
Start looking for deals on Meopta.

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Have a Vortex Crossfire on my .22LR and its great. New and right around your budget too. I know lads that use them on their deer guns too and they've no issues.

I've a Vortex Razor LHT on my deer gun but the image quality on the crossfire is well worth the money IMO.

 

[baguio]

I don’t shoot from highseats so I’m always at ground level on open ground and all of my perms have footpaths running through them, so I always want to see what is around. Still I am out pre-dawn and will be looking to take deer at first light and have never had any issue with any of my ‘middle of the road’ scopes.

My only woodland gun has a 2.5-15 mag Rudolph in it which is super in low light and was £350 new iirc.

If you're happy then that's fine but I can guarrantee you that your £350 Rudolph is not the same in low light as premium CIRO £2500 scope . It just isn't!

 

[palo]

Don't buy anything until you decide what calibre of rifle your going to buy and what your going to be hunting with it.

 

[nun_hunter]

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. I have shot numerous deer at last knockings when I have been out with stalkers with lesser scopes who couldn't see the deer clearly and turned down the shot. If I'm being paid to stalk, I have spent time and fuel driving to an area. I want to maximise my chances by not quiting earlier than the law allows. That last 10 minutes is important to me anyway. If I'm sat up a seat I can look down rides and know that I'm not going to hit a stray walker!
Target shooting is usually done in very good light conditions so the glass quality is less important I'm sure. However the OP is talking about hunting not target shooting.

I agree to some extent, especially with you being paid to shoot deer or having specific targets to achieve, then those last 10 minutes are important.

But from personal experience I would say if those last 10 minutes do indeed make all the difference then you'd be better off with a £250 NV add-on that will give you those 10 minutes and into complete darkness and can be used well with a cheaper scope in the first place. Team that with a thermal spotter and you can shoot 24hrs a day, shooting deer every possible minute of legal time and beyond that for pest control.

I think the price and availability of electronic technology is now making top end European glass less appealing and dare I say it obsolete in a lot of scenarios. The days of justifying spending an extra £500 or £1000 on a scope because it gives you 10-15 minutes more than another scope are numbered. "Ah but the customer service is legendary I hear you say" which it is, but Vortex beats it and although the glass may not be as bright in the last few minutes of an evening it doesn't really matter if you've gone down the NV and Spotter route.

A Pard DS35 will let you shoot 24hrs a day, has a built in range finder and BC calculator and still costs less new than a decent secondhand variable European scope.

 

[JTO]

Only sub 12 air rifle at the moment, but just with an idea for it to be a really good big of kit that I never get rid of. (I understand that a premium scope on an air rifle is a bit mad…)

Have a look at the scopes that the field air rifle boys put on their toys!