First foray into ‘premium’ scopes? What would be good?

[John Gryphon]

Fog, yes, light, no

I have had more than a few blokes sitting alongside put their glasses away whilst I still looked at deer.
On handing my glass to them one hears "oh **** now I know"

Always there for another day.

Tried that,it doesn't ****n work ha ha.

 

[TringSaint]

I have had more than a few blokes sitting alongside put their glasses away whilst I still looked at deer.
On handing my glass to them one hears "oh **** now I know"


Tried that,it doesn't ****n work ha ha.

I probably need to get a better pair of binos, but as I spend so much time scroffling around in the undergrowth and mud, often on my belly, crawling up to get into a good position for a shot, my binos get plastered in muck, even with a neoprene sleeve around them.

I fear that a good pair would just get wrecked!

 

[Warbucks]

18 months to 5 years to get a deer calibre?
I don’t think so.
Cheers, Ken.

West yorkshire 18 months on rim fire before you can get centre fire starting off on 223, then 18 months later 243 or above, i know this because one of the farmers i mentored wanted 243 after 18 months of hmr, he was told no a period of 223 first.
A lot depends on where in the country you live.

All this talk about high end deer scopes is ridiculous, the op has only got a sub 12 ft lb air rifle, if he wants to treat himself to some thing useful he was to get some thing like a Pard ds 35 so it will work out his aiming points, day or night and can be transferred to fac at a later date .

Dave (warbucks)

 

[John Gryphon]

I probably need to get a better pair of binos, but as I spend so much time scroffling around in the undergrowth and mud, often on my belly, crawling up to get into a good position for a shot, my binos get plastered in muck, even with a neoprene sleeve around them.

I fear that a good pair would just get wrecked!

Geezuz Tring you really want to learn about wtf we have to put up with here in our sambar mountains..my bins and scopes have survived. I feel lesser ones would have died after the shite mine have gone through.

 

[kenbro]

West yorkshire 18 months on rim fire before you can get centre fire starting off on 223, then 18 months later 243 or above, i know this because one of the farmers i mentored wanted 243 after 18 months of hmr, he was told no a period of 223 first.
A lot depends on where in the country you live.

All this talk about high end deer scopes is ridiculous, the op has only got a sub 12 ft lb air rifle, if he wants to treat himself to some thing useful he was to get some thing like a Pard ds 35 so it will work out his aiming points, day or night and can be transferred to fac at a later date .

Dave (warbucks)

I think someone

West yorkshire 18 months on rim fire before you can get centre fire starting off on 223, then 18 months later 243 or above, i know this because one of the farmers i mentored wanted 243 after 18 months of hmr, he was told no a period of 223 first.
A lot depends on where in the country you live.

All this talk about high end deer scopes is ridiculous, the op has only got a sub 12 ft lb air rifle, if he wants to treat himself to some thing useful he was to get some thing like a Pard ds 35 so it will work out his aiming points, day or night and can be transferred to fac at a later date .

Dave (warbucks)

I think someone needs educating over in West Yorkshire, whether it be their Firearms Section or your farmer friend?
If a person can show good reason for having a deer legal calibre rifle, they can’t be denied it….Surely?
Perhaps someone else from West Yorks can chime in?
Cheers, Ken.

 

[Navarone]

This thread is a wild ride

 

[25 Sharps]

So, and I’m going to tug at this one a bit more, if the vast majority of your shots are taken in such poor light conditions then why not save yourself a load of cash and simply fit a NV attachment or an NV scope to your rifle?

If you need those extra 7 minutes then why not give yourself the whole hour post sunset by using a scope system that allows you to see in very low light?

Surely that would be the best bit of kit for the job?

As for premium, that is very subjective! If you wanted a sports car, you could buy an MX5 or a GT86 and it would likely be all the car you need. If you had a bit more dosh then maybe a boxster or a cayman, and one of those would definitely out perform you.
So buying a lambo or a Ferrari or a McLaren isn’t going to make you any faster (well maybe a bit along the straight) but your inability to extract any more than 30% of the potential out of the vehicle makes the cost you pay not about performance, but about how it makes you feel.

If you want to spank 2.5k on a top scope then go for it. It won’t make you stalk any better and if conditions are your main issue then there are better bits of kit to use than a very expensive standard scope.

So premium doesn’t have to mean big brand - it can just mean better quality and that doesn’t have to cost a lot of money (all of my scopes added up cost less than £2.5k and they all work to a point that I have never not been able to shoot something due to poor light).
Fog, yes, light, no.

You obviously can’t read, I have said the vast majority of my shots aren’t taken in poor light!

Those that I do are generally on invitation or on paid stalks, do you think it would go down well if I turned up and started strapping NV on to shoot their deer it would go down well?

But on the odd occasion I do need good poor light performance it makes the difference between a deer on the deck or not, it is simple as that!

I have nothing against people using cheaper scopes, I did for years and still do on all of my job stalking rifles of which there are a few.

You, on the other hand, seem to have a real issue with people who choose to spend their money (or have the money?) to buy top end optics.

 

[Warbucks]

I think someone

I think someone needs educating over in West Yorkshire, whether it be their Firearms Section or your farmer friend?
If a person can show good reason for having a deer legal calibre rifle, they can’t be denied it….Surely?
Perhaps someone else from West Yorks can chime in?
Cheers, Ken.

Over the last 15 years iv'e mentored two lads in north Yorkshire and two in west Yorkshire.
10-15 years ago in north Yorkshire you could get 308 on first application (which a 19 year old lad id mentored did), here in west Yorkshire its been 18 months rim fire before being granted centre fire -------of the two area's i personally think west Yorkshire has the better idea, their thinking is "on the land experience", i dont think long term they will deny an appropriate person a deer caliber but they arn't going to have an experienced sub 12 ft lb person one week then a 308 the next week, should an accident occur how would they justify this ?

I also think they have tightened up since the shooting of the mp Jo Cox.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Ade8mm]

Any second hand Swaro is worth a look. Especially fixed focus as there is nothing much to wear out
Ade

 

[TringSaint]

You obviously can’t read, I have said the vast majority of my shots aren’t taken in poor light!

Those that I do are generally on invitation or on paid stalks, do you think it would go down well if I turned up and started strapping NV on to shoot their deer it would go down well?

But on the odd occasion I do need good poor light performance it makes the difference between a deer on the deck or not, it is simple as that!

I have nothing against people using cheaper scopes, I did for years and still do on all of my job stalking rifles of which there are a few.

You, on the other hand, seem to have a real issue with people who choose to spend their money (or have the money?) to buy top end optics.

I have no issue with people spending vast sums on scopes. My point is that there is a point where performance and cost cease to align and for the vast majority of people that will be likely in the mid-range of most things in life, including scopes.

For some, their abilities will take their need for performance further than others and they will buy better kit. But for the vast majority the excessive cost of ‘premium’ brands is not about performance, but more about the cache of owning a S&B or Leica scope on their grade 4 walnut semi custom blaser, which is fine btw, if that is what you want.

But, and let’s not forget the OP talking about a first foray into ‘premium’ scopes, that doesn’t have to mean a ‘premium’ brand, just a better quality scope which might also carry a premium logo and premium to him /her might mean something very different to you and I, and if the OP is really looking for something to gain those critical extra few minutes then there will need to be a trade off in terms of the price paid as you don’t get champagne for lemonade money these days!

 

[TringSaint]

Geezuz Tring you really want to learn about wtf we have to put up with here in our sambar mountains..my bins and scopes have survived. I feel lesser ones would have died after the shite mine have gone through.

Maybe I need to take that plunge!!

 

[25 Sharps]

I have no issue with people spending vast sums on scopes. My point is that there is a point where performance and cost cease to align and for the vast majority of people that will be likely in the mid-range of most things in life, including scopes.

For some, their abilities will take their need for performance further than others and they will buy better kit. But for the vast majority the excessive cost of ‘premium’ brands is not about performance, but more about the cache of owning a S&B or Leica scope on their grade 4 walnut semi custom blaser, which is fine btw, if that is what you want.

But, and let’s not forget the OP talking about a first foray into ‘premium’ scopes, that doesn’t have to mean a ‘premium’ brand, just a better quality scope which might also carry a premium logo and premium to him /her might mean something very different to you and I, and if the OP is really looking for something to gain those critical extra few minutes then there will need to be a trade off in terms of the price paid as you don’t get champagne for lemonade money these days!

He specifically mentioned the brands in the OP, you either can’t read or are just looking for an argument. Either way it appears you haven’t got a clue!

 

[TringSaint]

He specifically mentioned the brands in the OP, you either can’t read or are just looking for an argument. Either way it appears you haven’t got a clue!

But he also said £300 and I think unless it’s very old or very used you are unlikely to get a decent ‘premium’ scope!!

Far better to buy a mid point mid range scope brand new as technologies change so fast that it will likely out perform a base model ‘premium’ brand scope that is old and been out through its paces.

As for not having a clue, well I have been shooting for 36 years and have done ok so far, so can’t be lacking that much!!

But I have learned not to slag off others’ abilities when I know sweet F A about them!!

Adios

 

[25 Sharps]

But he also said £300 and I think unless it’s very old or very used you are unlikely to get a decent ‘premium’ scope!!

Far better to buy a mid point mid range scope brand new as technologies change so fast that it will likely out perform a base model ‘premium’ brand scope that is old and been out through its paces.

As for not having a clue, well I have been shooting for 36 years and have done ok so far, so can’t be lacking that much!!

But I have learned not to slag off others’ abilities when I know sweet F A about them!!

Adios

Again you’ve not read the OP which acknowledges he will need to buy a much older scope due to his budget.

How much is your Rudolph brand new? A ‘premium’ Hawke which in reality is only ever a mid range scope due to the glass will be £600 plus.

I haven’t once questioned your ability, just your knowledge and very narrow outlook that because something works for you, in your situation, everyone else is wasting their money.

 

[TringSaint]

Again you’ve not read the OP which acknowledges he will need to buy a much older scope due to his budget.

How much is your Rudolph brand new? A ‘premium’ Hawke which in reality is only ever a mid range scope due to the glass will be £600 plus.

I haven’t once questioned your ability, just your knowledge and very narrow outlook that because something works for you, in your situation, everyone else is wasting their money.

The Rudolph 2.5-15x50 is for sale at Swillington Shooting Supplies for £348, brand new.

That is what I have on my 308 and it’s perfect for woodland hunting, even in low light, for anything out to 150-200m.

Compared with my £800+ delta the optical clarity is as good, as is the light transmission, plus it’s a nice compact scope, not some whacking great chunk of glass adding unnecessary weight to my rifle.

As for buying old and used, would you spend £300 on a well used scope bought from someone you don’t know, with no real provenance or guarantee, or the same money one something that is up to date and comes with the usual guarantees from a reputable retailer?

Personally, I go for the latter. But that is my choice.

As for my knowledge - knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Experience is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! I like to lean on my experience to guide me as to what kit I need to use!

 

[Navarone]

See

The Rudolph 2.5-15x50 is for sale at Swillington Shooting Supplies for £348, brand new.

That is what I have on my 308 and it’s perfect for woodland hunting, even in low light, for anything out to 150-200m.

Compared with my £800+ delta the optical clarity is as good, as is the light transmission, plus it’s a nice compact scope, not some whacking great chunk of glass adding unnecessary weight to my rifle.

As for buying old and used, would you spend £300 on a well used scope bought from someone you don’t know, with no real provenance or guarantee, or the same money one something that is up to date and comes with the usual guarantees from a reputable retailer?

Personally, I go for the latter. But that is my choice.

As for my knowledge - knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Experience is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! I like to lean on my experience to guide me as to what kit I need to use!

see I’d be the exact opposite of this approach. I would always prefer to spend the same amount of money on something older/used which was/is the rolls Royce of its time. I just think you get much better value that way.

Understood you don’t know it’s provenance etc but if you do enough research on something and enough looking at options then you start to get a feel for what is good and right and what isn’t and what value those things have. Ie, a minter at X and a bashed up one at y.

Also with proper stuff you can always send it off to be serviced and basically rebuilt and often won’t have paid the same money as a mid range option bought new. Again surely that is better value.

I also can’t stomach the fact that as soon as that 600quid Hawke arrives new and I take it out of the packet I’ve wiped what half off its value? Whereas with a premium brand they are always in demand because people know they are good and want to own one.

I’m a joiner and my table saw (Wadkin PK) was built in 1941. I am £1200 into it and an equivalent (tbh there isn’t really a direct equivalent at this point) would be 20k at least, probably more. Yes I’ve had the Wadkin serviced but there is no saw which does what it was designed for (ripping solid timber) better. Seems a no brainer to me. For 1200quid an equivalent would be a cheap, hobbyist piece of chinesium rubbish…

 

[TringSaint]

See

see I’d be the exact opposite of this approach. I would always prefer to spend the same amount of money on something older/used which was/is the rolls Royce of its time. I just think you get much better value that way.

Understood you don’t know it’s provenance etc but if you do enough research on something and enough looking at options then you start to get a feel for what is good and right and what isn’t and what value those things have. Ie, a minter at X and a bashed up one at y.

Also with proper stuff you can always send it off to be serviced and basically rebuilt and often won’t have paid the same money as a mid range option bought new. Again surely that is better value.

I also can’t stomach the fact that as soon as that 600quid Hawke arrives new and I take it out of the packet I’ve wiped what half off its value? Whereas with a premium brand they are always in demand because people know they are good and want to own one.

I’m a joiner and my table saw (Wadkin PK) was built in 1941. I am £1200 into it and an equivalent (tbh there isn’t really a direct equivalent at this point) would be 20k at least, probably more. Yes I’ve had the Wadkin serviced but there is no saw which does what it was designed for (ripping solid timber) better. Seems a no brainer to me. For 1200quid an equivalent would be a cheap, hobbyist piece of chinesium rubbish…

Only advice I can give you then is buyer beware, and you need to test the scope on a rifle before you know whether or not it actually works - premium brand or not.

If you don’t know how to do this then get someone who does know to test it for you.

Don’t believe any BS that anyone tells you about any used scope being mint condition as it’s just a possible to break a leupold as it is to break a hawke, and the scope is being sold for a reason.

Good luck with your scope hunt!!

 

[Island]

There appears to be an awful lot of testosterone spilling out on to this thread. It is worth remembering, when it comes to a topic as subjective as glass (or rifle, or chambering), that there is no "truth", there are only "truths". Or, to put it another way, one cannot say "X is better than Y", one can only say "I think X is better than Y"...

To the OP I would offer no advice on brand or model (you pays your money and you makes your choice) but if you are looking for someplace to start then I would suggest keeping an eye on MacLeod's website; invariably a little nugget of gold turns up every so often and you will struggle to find a better shop to deal with in the whole of the UK.

 

[lksopener1]

The Rudolph 2.5-15x50 is for sale at Swillington Shooting Supplies for £348, brand new.

That is what I have on my 308 and it’s perfect for woodland hunting, even in low light, for anything out to 150-200m.

Compared with my £800+ delta the optical clarity is as good, as is the light transmission, plus it’s a nice compact scope, not some whacking great chunk of glass adding unnecessary weight to my rifle.

As for buying old and used, would you spend £300 on a well used scope bought from someone you don’t know, with no real provenance or guarantee, or the same money one something that is up to date and comes with the usual guarantees from a reputable retailer?

Personally, I go for the latter. But that is my choice.

As for my knowledge - knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Experience is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad! I like to lean on my experience to guide me as to what kit I need to use!

You’d get a decent S & B 8x56 for £300 and low light performance is much better than a chinesium adjustable variable thing with loads of gadgets you don’t need.

If ya can’t see um you can’t shoot em

 

[TringSaint]

You’d get a decent S & B 8x56 for £300 and low light performance is much better than a chinesium adjustable variable thing with loads of gadgets you don’t need.

If ya can’t see um you can’t shoot em

Rudolph scopes are made in Japan (which is known for its optics) and come out of the same factory as Nightforce, btw, so they aren’t cheap crap.

Also, an 8x56 on an air rifle? Not the usual choice, but if it’s premium brand you want then that’s your choice for £300!