Nominations for BASC Council elections are now open

[finnbear270]

B.a.s.c. Agm.

Just back home from Stirling, had a good trip both ways, courtesy of Willie-Gunn (Dom), things would have been a lot more difficult without his kind help!& a very good evening spent in his company in a Moffat hostelry, followed by Griff's election to council,:lol: with I may say a goodly portion...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Has it really been 14 years ??

 

[kes]

That is absolute nonsense.

Absolute nonsense is not what I would call it.
I asked BASC to confirm that they would honour a membership application if I were to accept many peoples wish to nominate me for Council and vote for me.
BASC flat out refused to confirm they would not use their Bye Laws to exclude me from membership - no membership - no chance so Kenbro should have an apology in my opinion.
However that's as likely as me getting confirmation that I would not be removed from membership by the application of said Bye - Laws.

For everyone's benefit, my position remains the same - if BASC PM me on this site and confirm I would be allowed to become a member again take up a position if elected,, I would stand and see if people supported me - and I would not ask for a refund if they didn't.
All I can guarantee beyond that, if I were elected is - fireworks.

 

[kes]

As a corollary, BASC do not readily accept criticism so I have been a little detached recently. Very much more because the site owners asked me to restrain my criticism since others they suggested did not wish to hear it.
My views have not changed on BASC, I am just respecting the site owners wishes. At the time this was all happening (above) was it Karl who used to post and regularly commented himself. In fact it may well have been him who asked me to stand for the Council at BASC - anyway its all on here in the archive so I suggest MR O' Gorman looks and apologises for 'misrepresenting ' what actually happened. By the way, what is the number of members these days ?

 

[cjm1066]

I will be standing.

It's easy to bash any of the organisations, but please everyone support at least one and put as much energy into lobbying your MP and promoting our sport as you do posting on SD and other fieldsport social media where it only gets read by fellow shooters.

 

[kenbro]

Absolute nonsense is not what I would call it.
I asked BASC to confirm that they would honour a membership application if I were to accept many peoples wish to nominate me for Council and vote for me.
BASC flat out refused to confirm they would not use their Bye Laws to exclude me from membership - no membership - no chance so Kenbro should have an apology in my opinion.
However that's as likely as me getting confirmation that I would not be removed from membership by the application of said Bye - Laws.

For everyone's benefit, my position remains the same - if BASC PM me on this site and confirm I would be allowed to become a member again take up a position if elected,, I would stand and see if people supported me - and I would not ask for a refund if they didn't.
All I can guarantee beyond that, if I were elected is - fireworks.

Hear hear.
Ken.

 

[Mike L]

Apparently it’s gone up to 166,000

 

[kes]

I will be standing.

It's easy to bash any of the organisations, but please everyone support at least one and put as much energy into lobbying your MP and promoting our sport as you do posting on SD and other fieldsport social media where it only gets read by fellow shooters.

I would like to know your real reasoning?

It cant be down to BASC's successes at turning the tide of events.
It is also for anyone (you included) to suggests its "easy to bash" but first you have enough interest in our lifestyle to have either the wish to see change by positive criticism. or to lament the failures over a number of years and various chief executives who's salary members pay for for success - not little to mediocrity in their performance and management capability.
Don't call it bashing - that's too easy a sound bite, probably invented by BASC - have you heard of criticism to the same degree of other organisations, I suspect not, I haven't.
The NGA have a very good press for taking supportive legal actions to protect its members livelihoods. BASC, with all its money has yet to do that EFFECTIVELY - dont forget the 'fighting fund' also good sound bites but delivery ?
I have been a member of other organisations and have nothing but praise for most of their efforts on a shoestring with volunteers to carry out their work.
BASC have a paid staff, many of whom are good at their jobs, they have some dead weight which remains. It was said to staff " its much harder in the real world". It isn't you just have to want to make positive change and can convince those above you. Not easy at BASC I suspect - I refer here to the mess when Ali was CEO

My biggest gripe is BASC claimed the title (heard very rarely these days) of " The Voice of Shooting" it isn't, it never was. The true Voice of Shooting is the membership who work/tend the environment/raise the birds and enjoy preserving the countryside and country pursuits or simply, as has been said to me many times "just being there".

Why ally yourself with a failed and failing organisation unless you seek change and to do that you need supporters so I'd drop the 'bashing' label, unless the support you are looking for already has a job at BASC.
I criticise because I see the failure, I would stand if, as I say above, I simply was told I'd be allowed to serve on Council if I won. It doesn't take a lot to confirm that on here ----------------- .

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The knockers, myself included look at the overall performance of the organisation and the employees that seem never to acknowledge any faults. What I and others want to see are wins in the big issues and I can't ever recall one. It is always a managed retreat. Where are the improvements in licensing, GL's, insurance, HSE etc. All I see is promotion of the org to get more members or to increase training revenue and very little else.

The "voice" is always one step behind. I would dearly love to support BASC but I feel my fees over the years have been wasted. The "fighting fund" was pushed the other day on the BASC mailshot, just perhaps it might actually be used. This time it was look at us we have some money for fighting legal actions as we took away Legal Expenses. Please get a grip, the shooting world has real problems.

The HSE consultation on lead, and prior to that the voluntary transition, has become divisive within the shooting community and quite rightly shooters are worried. As someone involved in ALL (yes I'm shouting) areas of game and target shooting BASC has fuelled that division. I think that BASC really didn't understand the consequences and continues to work in a naive and unproductive way.

If anyone wishes to say it's just talking from the sidelines, I do get involved, I help run four shooting clubs catering for all types of firearms.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Absolute nonsense is not what I would call it.
I asked BASC to confirm that they would honour a membership application if I were to accept many peoples wish to nominate me for Council and vote for me.
BASC flat out refused to confirm they would not use their Bye Laws to exclude me from membership - no membership - no chance so Kenbro should have an apology in my opinion.
However that's as likely as me getting confirmation that I would not be removed from membership by the application of said Bye - Laws.

For everyone's benefit, my position remains the same - if BASC PM me on this site and confirm I would be allowed to become a member again take up a position if elected,, I would stand and see if people supported me - and I would not ask for a refund if they didn't.
All I can guarantee beyond that, if I were elected is - fireworks.

It's nonsense and well you know it. The criteria for BASC membership and submitting an application for Council elections are the same for everyone. It's all on our website. To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous.

 

[cjm1066]

My reasoning will be posted in my election statement, then BASC members can read it and choose the best candidates.

Those who aren't members have ample time to join and vote.

All organisations benefit from constructive criticism, when events from the past that are long concluded are dragged up such as Ali is that constructive?

 

[kes]

It's nonsense and well you know it. The criteria for BASC membership and submitting an application for Council elections are the same for everyone. It's all on our website. To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous.

The question you have to ask yourself is did I ask for confirmation that the bye-laws/ constitution would not be used to invalidate my membership - well, did I?

This statement,
To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous.

Is also plainly untrue, as I did not .........and you have now chosen to excuse your rudeness on the basis of statement I never made. You are now looking ridiculous.
There was no invention of rules for me just a request for a confirmation that the bye-laws/constitution which could be used to invalidate my proposed membership and hence invalidate any votes for me if I had stood would not be used.

3. MEMBERSHIP
(a) This Association shall consist of such persons as have been or shall be admitted to membership as hereinafter provided.
(b) Every member shall hold one undivided share only in this Association. The share shall not be withdrawable or transferable, and no interest or dividend shall be paid upon it. Each share shall be of the value of £1which sum shall be paid or be deemed to have been paid on the enrolment of a member to this Association. Supporters may also be admitted but shall not hold a share nor have voting rights.
(c) Enrolment of members – intending members of this Association shall upon application for membership supply such particulars (if any) as the Council shall from time to time require. Application for membership shall be taken as irrefutable proof of assent to be bound by the Rules and Regulations for the time being of this Association as interpreted by the Council whose directions therein shall be final and binding on members of this Association.

(d) The Council may at its absolute discretion and without giving reasons decline to admit any person to membership of this Association whether or not such person has paid a subscription or membership fee.


This extract is from the BASC constitution and it was confirmation that this would not be used in my case (given the history) that I sought and was never given.
This therefore applies to all members and is therefore not an invented criteria and is not especially for me.
What you are saying is therefore demonstrably an untruth. How surprising.

 

[Nimrod1960]

The question you have to ask yourself is did I ask for confirmation that the bye-laws/ constitution would not be used to invalidate my membership - well, did I?

This statement,
To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous.

Is also plainly untrue, as I did not .........and you have now chosen to excuse your rudeness on the basis of statement I never made. You are now looking ridiculous.
There was no invention of rules for me just a request for a confirmation that the bye-laws/constitution which could be used to invalidate my proposed membership and hence invalidate any votes for me if I had stood would not be used.

3. MEMBERSHIP
(a) This Association shall consist of such persons as have been or shall be admitted to membership as hereinafter provided.
(b) Every member shall hold one undivided share only in this Association. The share shall not be withdrawable or transferable, and no interest or dividend shall be paid upon it. Each share shall be of the value of £1which sum shall be paid or be deemed to have been paid on the enrolment of a member to this Association. Supporters may also be admitted but shall not hold a share nor have voting rights.
(c) Enrolment of members – intending members of this Association shall upon application for membership supply such particulars (if any) as the Council shall from time to time require. Application for membership shall be taken as irrefutable proof of assent to be bound by the Rules and Regulations for the time being of this Association as interpreted by the Council whose directions therein shall be final and binding on members of this Association.

(d) The Council may at its absolute discretion and without giving reasons decline to admit any person to membership of this Association whether or not such person has paid a subscription or membership fee.


This extract is from the BASC constitution and it was confirmation that this would not be used in my case (given the history) that I sought and was never given.
This therefore applies to all members and is therefore not an invented criteria and is not especially for me.
What you are saying is therefore demonstrably an untruth. How surprising.

“Given the history”

I think,given the emotional undertones of your posts, you ought to enlighten us.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

B.a.s.c. Agm.

Just back home from Stirling, had a good trip both ways, courtesy of Willie-Gunn (Dom), things would have been a lot more difficult without his kind help!& a very good evening spent in his company in a Moffat hostelry, followed by Griff's election to council,:lol: with I may say a goodly portion...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Post #16 from our very own CSL
AGM 2010 .............. still no online interaction beyond posting on here?
This is not a Bash, this is an M&S Non Bash.

The M&S ref made me smile and I would be interested in more feedback from yourself and others on the value of online interaction as regards AGMs and influence generally on BASC's policy work.

Firstly, on online interaction with members, a decade and more ago there was interaction via BASC staff and Council members with other BASC members and non-members on forums, here, pigeonwatch, wildfowling forum, the airgun forums and so on.

Then came Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn and updates are constantly going on there from BASC several times a day.

I also recall a suggestion via SD around a decade ago if not more, for a feedback area 'Have Your Say' on BASC website for emerging policy issues and we did that. However, it ended up being mostly one-way traffic - us posting updates and getting little response.

We did the same a little later with BASC advisory committees - a special password protected forum for daily feedback from around 100 committee members - again, mostly one way traffic of updates with little feedback.

Secondly, on AGMs, for the 2020 BASC AGM it was online only due to Covid lockdowns and you would have thought it would be busy with people not having to travel and the recent announcements on removal of legal expenses insurance and the voluntary transition away from lead shot and non-plastic wads for live quarry shooting with shotguns. Yet there were less than 40 members involved in online voting.

The 2021 BASC AGM was online with less than 30 members involved in online voting. The 2022 and 2023 BASC AGMs were face to face at BASC HQ and a bit busier but not by much.

The fact is that for those of us that are interested in engagement on policy issues, we are in the 1% category. Most people are just not interested and trust their membership organisation to get on with it. Frustrating perhaps but that is the reality. And online interaction is not necessarily a cure to that.

As regards AGMs online vs face to face meetings, this is an issue being considered for membership organisations across lots of sectors and here is an interesting insight on RSPB:

https://markavery.info/2023/10/16/thoughts-on-the-rspb-agm/

This is just a quick reply, and there is lots more to discuss perhaps, and happy to explore further if of interest here or offline.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The question you have to ask yourself is did I ask for confirmation that the bye-laws/ constitution would not be used to invalidate my membership - well, did I?

This statement,
To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous.

Is also plainly untrue, as I did not .........and you have now chosen to excuse your rudeness on the basis of statement I never made. You are now looking ridiculous.
There was no invention of rules for me just a request for a confirmation that the bye-laws/constitution which could be used to invalidate my proposed membership and hence invalidate any votes for me if I had stood would not be used.

3. MEMBERSHIP
(a) This Association shall consist of such persons as have been or shall be admitted to membership as hereinafter provided.
(b) Every member shall hold one undivided share only in this Association. The share shall not be withdrawable or transferable, and no interest or dividend shall be paid upon it. Each share shall be of the value of £1which sum shall be paid or be deemed to have been paid on the enrolment of a member to this Association. Supporters may also be admitted but shall not hold a share nor have voting rights.
(c) Enrolment of members – intending members of this Association shall upon application for membership supply such particulars (if any) as the Council shall from time to time require. Application for membership shall be taken as irrefutable proof of assent to be bound by the Rules and Regulations for the time being of this Association as interpreted by the Council whose directions therein shall be final and binding on members of this Association.

(d) The Council may at its absolute discretion and without giving reasons decline to admit any person to membership of this Association whether or not such person has paid a subscription or membership fee.


This extract is from the BASC constitution and it was confirmation that this would not be used in my case (given the history) that I sought and was never given.
This therefore applies to all members and is therefore not an invented criteria and is not especially for me.
What you are saying is therefore demonstrably an untruth. How surprising.

This is rather incoherent and comes across as narcissistic behaviour, perhaps unintentionally, I don't know, but it is rather bizarre. In any case, if you wish to submit an application for the 2024 BASC Council elections the process is clear and it is up to you to make the decision whether to proceed. There is no conspiracy against you.

 

[kes]

This is rather incoherent and comes across as narcissistic behaviour, perhaps unintentionally, I don't know, but it is rather bizarre. In any case, if you wish to submit an application for the 2024 BASC Council elections the process is clear and it is up to you to make the decision whether to proceed. There is no conspiracy against you.

On the contrary, are you aware of the meaning of narcissistic _ a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance - this incompetent assessment is then tempered by 'perhaps unintentionally'. Are you really so naïve as to assume the 'history' is of no consequence ? I remember you accusing me of 'racism' by referring to the 'Irish' and 'charm'.
What I have said is the whole truth not 'bizarre' as you suggest, flailing about trying to discredit what I have said.
All this, including the racism accusation is on record, anyone can follow up what I have said. Just by typing the key words.
Incoherence is ---the quality of being illogical, inconsistent, or unclear.
Whilst a worthwhile insult, if correct, anyone can see that my comments have been entirely coherent whereas your suggestion of;, To invent your own criteria for BASC to apply especially for you is plainly ridiculous - is obviously an untruth. I leave others to judge, and I advise you that if your responses are indicative of the prejudice and abuse levelled at others, then BASC is unlikely to ever be taken seriously, however, it is not the first time abuse has been levelled but in the past it has been at BASC's staff by BASC management.
The "Voice of Shooting" engaged in petty insulting behaviour is surprising or is it arrogant self-interest.
Just get me the assurance I seek on the malicious operation of the Constitution article 3d and you will find out directly why insulting behaviour is no substitute for doing your job and doing it well.
The type of behaviour you exhibit here is reprehensible and would not be tolerated by an employer seeking to enhance its reputation with its membership, upon whose contributions its existence depends.
Any more insults and I will enumerate the failings of your employer - better you decide to reorientate your bile and vitriol.

 

[csl]

Gentlemen,

Would you take these things (narcissistic etc.) to private messaging please. We only want what's really happening with shooting, who performed it and what the effects will/might be.

Thank you.

Alex

 

[kes]

Fully accept what you say - apologies.
Personal attacks in public do however merit a factual response - also in public. I will say no more.

 

[Stalker62]

I will say no more.

If only…

 

[Scotty99]

Why on earth would you want to get involved with an organisation that's not fit for purpose.
Out of touch with what their members want.

Maybe to help change it.

 

[Scotty99]

Fully accept what you say - apologies.
Personal attacks in public do however merit a factual response - also in public. I will say no more.

Take BASC’s offer at face value. Apply for membership and then put yourself forward to the council. It’s the only way for you to test your resolve and to test BASC’s good faith.