Pointers. How do they do that?

[Stalker62]

No. Not them.

These...



This year I was lucky enough to tick one off the list, and shot over Pointer(s) for the first time in my life.

Whilst the dog (Bitch called Fly), did her bit, I was absolutely no help whatsoever in adding to the bag.

The lad that was 'standing in' for the dog man was a decent enough lad, but not an expert on dogs.

I was utterly fascinated to see the Pointer working.

"How do they learn to do that?

"It's bred into them. They learn it from their parents".

"I know that, but how did they get the 'first' Pointer to 'point'?"

"It's bred into them. They learn if from their parents".

And so it went on.

So.

How did they (who are 'they'), first teach the first Pointer to...point?

 

[NigelM]

No idea, it's bred into them, they learn it from their parents...

 

[GWP]

it is instinct they will point from a very early age at almost any living thing small birds in a meadow is usually one of the first things

 

[Donkey Basher]

Joking aside, like all dogs, what they do is a result of their breeding I’d guess. Some time way back I imagine that someone had a dog that went ‘on point’ & so the owner decided it was a character trait they wanted to preserve so bred from it accordingly & the rest, as they say, is history.

My very first springer, bought from a local keeper (poacher) when I was 19yo was a rangey bast**d but I soon learned his ‘tell’ when he was about to flush a bird - he’d stop hunting, his head would go down & his tail would wag like a flag “it’s here get ready ‘cos I’m going to flush it & you’d better hit it after all my hard work”. Between the two of us we accounted for many a crafty old cock pheasant that thought he’d found a safe home to hide in amongst the clear fell from the ‘great storm’. None of my spaniels since have shown this trait.

 

[Stalker62]

Some time way back I imagine that someone had a dog that went ‘on point’ & so the owner decided it was a character trait they wanted to preserve so bred from it accordingly...

I think that must be right.

 

[sh1kar]

I think that must be right.

Selective breeding for a particular trait. Interestingly all my springers pointed. Neither of my labs did/do - they will have had over the years the hard hunting instinct selectively bred out. The WHV pointed from about 3 months


S

 

[8x57]

My GWP has taught our Jack Russel to point.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

Interestingly all my springers pointed. Neither of my labs did/do

My Springer/Lab crosses both point, usually at squirrels in a tree.

My missus' elderly pointer bitch has never pointed at anything in her life.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

My long gone GSP would point feather with front leg raised and point fur with back leg raised.

As others have said it’s a case of selective breeding.

 

[levigsp]

So anybody who has worked dogs from a child will know that all breeds of dog, be it collie, mongrel or terrier will eventually point. I say since a child for a reason.
A child is not interest in training only playing and if the get the dog to chase it fun! so the dog sees or smells something and runs in, and it gets away, they may do this once or a hundred times, before they think, if I stop, sneak in and pounce I might catch.
So when someone back in the pre medieval period saw dogs halt like this they used it to good effect with hawks and nets to catch dinner, one good dog and bitch were put together to produce the Leithund. ancestor of all pointer types. Training of pointers involves giving the dog the time to hunt and lean to hunt, eventualy finding dame, rushing in and so one. Some dogs will point first time, some may take a few, and there are ways to shorten those time etc.

 

[Norfolk Horn]

Instinct
My HWV bitch Meg pointed really strongly and held from 12 weeks when I got her. My HWV dog Otis didn't start pointing until probably 18 months but now is very good and will carefully stalk into a sent. It's real pretty to watch when Otis goes to point and Meg honours him like two peas in a pod.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Instinct
My HWV bitch Meg pointed really strongly and held from 12 weeks when I got her. My HWV dog Otis didn't start pointing until probably 18 months but now is very good and will carefully stalk into a sent. It's real pretty to watch when Otis goes to point and Meg honours him like two peas in a pod.

Any photos of them on point together?

 

[Mungo]

it is instinct they will point from a very early age at almost any living thing small birds in a meadow is usually one of the first things

Yes - but I think he’s asking the deeper question: where does that instinct come from and how is such a complex behaviour inherited.

 

[Norfolk Horn]

Any photos of them on point together?

I doubt it but I'll have a look

 

[McKenzie]

My long gone GSP would point feather with front leg raised and point fur with back leg raised.

As others have said it’s a case of selective breeding.

That’s not that unusual; 2 of my pointers have done this.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

My long gone GSP would point feather with front leg raised and point fur with back leg raised.

As others have said it’s a case of selective breeding.

Before l field trialed my GSP l would work her on a shoot here in North Yorkshire where most of the dogs in the beating line were GSP’s (brilliant pointers) and l mentioned the fact to other handlers that she pointed fur with hind leg raised, none had witnessed this (they thought l was taking the pi$$) and were keen to see my bitch perform, l knew at a certain point in the wood on a certain drive ( rabbity area) that she would point fur, when the time came l informed other beaters and they were amazed to see her stance, then they witnessed the on command flush, obviously rabbit, next point feather front leg raised.
Mind you this occurrence was more years ago than I care to remember, perhaps quite unusual then, I’m sure there’s a term for it but I don’t remember.

 

[Dunwaters]

Pointing is a development of stalking, you can often see a dog get a whiff of scent and cat walk in until it has the target position locked in at which stage you should get a full on point.
It’s one of the most exciting things in shooting to see a pointer transition from a full gallop to frozen statue in half a stride.
Most dogs can be taught to point, some breeds are specialists.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Whilst training my GSP in her younger days l came across a field close by where I was working that held English Partridge, a short grassy pasture with hedges either side, the following day I took her there and cast her off into the wind quartering the field and within 50 yards she began to check on her run but didn’t stop her quartering until a stronger scent was found it was then she stopped at full tilt to draw on until full staunch point, this was her first point at Partridge, absolutely astounding to watch poetry in motion, then the command to flush was her reward.

 

[User00047]

Yes - but I think he’s asking the deeper question: where does that instinct come from and how is such a complex behaviour inherited.

It’s just selective breeding that’s enhanced this trait.

 

[Ratel]

My first springer would never work a hedge but would take the windward side, slow down and point. On command she would dive in and flush, a constant source of amusement to my beaters. She was a big old fashioned black and white type got from my first Headkeeper.