FAC carrying criteria

[Apthorpe]

The cert holder has no discretion, the officer has.
“Shall” means no discretion for either party, “may“ introduces a discretionary element, in this case for the officer, but not the certificate holder.

This is just made up, I'm afraid. It doesn't make sense to think that the phrase "the officer may demand" to see a certificate means that the holder has to produce one, and the officer doesn't have to ask for one. If the officer doesn't demand to see it, the holder is not still obliged to produce it.

The certificate holder is required to produce a certificate on demand.

Splitting hairs, but he isn't really required to. He does not commit an offence if he doesn't.

Sorry if I worded it wrongly, I was thinking of the OP‘s question.

 

[Firefly]

I'd previously looked into it, following a bad experience, and I don't have the details to hand. However, I believe the situation is that a police person can demand to see your FAC or SGC and if you don't produce it, they can seize the gun(s) you are carrying. That said, as others have pointed out, it is perfectly easy for them to establish that you hold a FAC if you're not carrying it. Essentially, you'll be fine if the policeman isn't a prick. However, quite a lot of them are.

Have you had a lot of dealings with the police in order to make that statement ?

 

[Dazb1967]

I'm not sure of how the law stands but I have been stopped numerous times on the way to my permission and I have never been asked to produce my cert the same as they have never asked to check my guns, They just do their routine checks, I was even breathalysed on one of the stops in the early hours, I remember many years ago my youngest son dialled 999 on the house phone and we didn't even realise. Next thing I knew we had armed response at the door, I didn't realise you can't hang up or couldn't hang up on a 999 call, it stays connected if there is no comms with the caller, Anyway when they arrived they said they had to enter the house because there was Firearms registered at the property and they had to make sure everything was OK which it was

 

[Apthorpe]

Have you had a lot of dealings with the police in order to make that statement ?

Not many, but I assume I'm on safe ground presuming that about the many bad eggs blighting the various police forces whether they be rapists, murderers, blackmailers, or just the averagely corrupt. Since the most senior police officers in the country have estimated that there are many hundreds of them, that seems like "quite a lot" even without considering that any might a prick and not also a criminal.

 

[CNN]

I also have a photo of the relevent details on my phone.

Same here. I find authorities are generally ok with a photo since they can look up the FAC number quickly.

 

[Hunter300]

The easy option is to carry it despite what others say as, yes you can have a picture argue the toss you don't need it but what you will want to do is be on your way, but remember there will be a reason you are stopped and it won't be because your FAC is at home but something else, late at night driving like a noodle mot out back light out. People get stopped or have to stop all the time and don't have a SGC/FAC

I cross the road to go foxing from my house so take the rifle in a slip and kit also my FAC zipped up in an inside pocket,
Also often stand 40 yds inside on farm land with my truck in the gate way (rifle on sticks) calling foxes, again FAC zipped away.
When people come pigeon/duck/roost shooting with me I tell them to bring it, it is not difficult!

You have to jump through enough hoops to get one so why not take it on the times you go out with the rifle/shotgun.

Well said

 

[Pete1774]

Good day. Does anyone know what the law say about carrying your FAC while driving to or from a shoot.
Question really is, if your FAC is at home while you’re out, will you get in trouble?

Not sure if its a legal requirement. Just to save hassel I always have a photocopy of my current FAC in the glove box. I know it doesn't pass as a legal document but its got all the details so Mr Plod can check them on his/her radio or Police mobile phone.

 

[Dalua]

Well said

My take on it's a bit different, in that I'm out with firearms quite often, but am very unlikely to attract police attention. In the past on the occasions when I have (twice in 40years of certificate-holding), they have not exercised their discretionary power under S48 either to demand that I present my certificate or to seize my firearm.

On balance, therefore, it seems a lot easier not to bother taking the certificate out with me most of time, and when if I'm within a shortish drive of my study. I'm far more likely to lose, get it soaking wet etc. than I am to be asked for it.

If I'm going several hours' drive or more from home I would certainly try to remember to take it with me....

 

[Dickie]

There are good and bad in all professions also there are anti gun owners in all walks of life you might just be unlucky who you’re stopped by so it’s just easier to be prepared.

 

[Pedro]

So, no, there is no law that requires you to carry your certificate. Although if a police officer thinks you don't have a certificate, he/she can seize your firearms. So that's the law bit sorted.

In practice, every officer that has a radio can check whether you have a current certificate. So before taking any action if you haven't got your ticket on you, they would be able to verify you have one (or not). But remember, although these days police radio contact is pretty good, there might just be the odd remote, hilly area where it fails. But even then, generally they'd work something out, eg, come to the end of this valley where my radio works or something.

I really can't remember hearing of even one occasion where someone has had their guns confiscated for not having a certificate when they do actually have one. (unless there's something else going on that is).

Nor is there any requirement to have a photocopy or digital picture of your certificate on your mobile device. And, of course they could be faked anyway. As if you wouldn't be found out! But if having some sort of copy of your certificate gives you a better sense of security, then that in itself would be no bad reason to have one with you. As for carrying your actual certificates with you, I suspect, even in a waterproof cover, mine would deteriorate pretty quickly.

 

[Dunwaters]

This is just made up, I'm afraid. It doesn't make sense to think that the phrase "the officer may demand" to see a certificate means that the holder has to produce one, and the officer doesn't have to ask for one. If the officer doesn't demand to see it, the holder is not still obliged to produce it.

Splitting hairs, but he isn't really required to. He does not commit an offence if he doesn't.

The phrase means exactly what it says.
The officer is not required to demand production but may.
Should the officer so demand the holder is required to produce it.
I neither stated or implied that an offence was committed by not carrying the certificate

 

[Dalua]

The phrase means exactly what it says.

Yes

The officer is not required to demand production but may.

Yes.

Should the officer so demand the holder is required to produce it.

He really isn't. He may produce it or not. He can't be 'required' to produce it, because he might not actually hold one: and even if he does, there is no 'requirement' in law for him to have it with him to produce it. In any case, he would be lawfully entitled not to produce it even if he did have it with him.

 

[gixer1]

We should introduce a course or a a tracking register for people carrying their FAC!

 

[Dazb1967]

Like I say above I'm not sure if it is the law but when I have been stopped they have never asked, I'm sure if it was the law they would have taken things further, If it's the law that you must carry your FAC I'm pretty sure a Photocopy will not pull you out the S***E when stopped and asked to produce it. Try taking a photo copy of your passport to the airport when you're going on holiday and I bet you don't get very far, Anyone with a bit computer knowledge can edit a photocopied document.

 

[Roedeer 1962]

I just keep a photo copy of the relevant details on front of certificate for authorities to do any checks if need to !

 

[finnbear270]

What for, a condom?

And your regular partner? Your explanation of your need?

 

[Firefly]

Not many, but I assume I'm on safe ground presuming that about the many bad eggs blighting the various police forces whether they be rapists, murderers, blackmailers, or just the averagely corrupt. Since the most senior police officers in the country have estimated that there are many hundreds of them, that seems like "quite a lot" even without considering that any might a prick and not also a criminal.

I’ve dealt with hundreds of police officers during my life in various capacities, must have been lucky as only one was a prick.

 

[drone]

I had my fac in for a variation when I managed to sell one of my rifles, contacted the FAC dept and they said use a photocopy. I told them I wouldn't buy a gun off anyone with only a photocopy, FAC complete with variations arrived a few days later by 2nd class mail unsigned for - I couldn't believe this as it's ripe for abuse.
My latest variation took a similar twist, I was running out of 22 rimfire ammo and asked them to speed things up so I could get some more, picked up my cert three days later.
When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s got used to carrying my gun license, few years back I bought a leather holder from amazon for about £15 both certs now pristine and easily portable, as per image.

 

[Kevgun]

In the Home office guidance it says "certificate or evidence of" so I just keep a PDF file on my phone in a password secured folder.

 

[Stalker62]

I bought a leather holder from amazon for about £15 both certs now pristine and easily portable...

View attachment 346537

I bought similar leather covers for my FAC/SGC/PBC and my wife's SGC.

Fitted all them all perfectly.

The next year my Force, for some inexplicable reason, changed the A4 format to A5 format, and so now nothing fits.

Bastards.