FAC grant (Scotland) issues

[User00056]

The whole prosses is beginning to leave a bit of a sour taste, there seems to be a lot of negative bias towards me for some unknown reason, despite my evidence of lifestyle choices, commitment to stalking, several years of experience with differnt firarms from air rifles to CF and the humane taking of live game.

I would seriously consider lodging a formal complaint. This seems to be entirely at odds with what I, and others, have experienced with Police Scotland firearms Licensing.

 

[VSS]

Well, this might sound a bit blunt, but it would seem to me from reading the above post #39 that there's something about you (or your household) that they're not comfortable about.
Sit down and have a long hard think about what it might be.
An FEO of very long-standing experience once told me that they can generally tell within a few minutes of walking into a house whether or not they'd be happy with firearms being there. It's all down to "atmosphere", as he put it.

 

[Subsistence]

Personally, I’d answer the question without agreeing it’s a necessity.

As others have said, this may be a way of her approving your application on the basis of ‘new information’ and not having to acknowledge the prior decision was wrong.

As to BASC, that’s a bit concerning if they’re willing to accept Police Scotland taking that view. So far, case law is clear that good reason is not need. If Police Scotland are now saying paid stalks (with adequate evidence) aren’t good reason, that’s starting to look an awful lot like equating good reason to need.

@Conor O'Gorman

It was clearly stated in my home visit, that I had want and not need.

I tried to point out that the standard was good reason, and not need, however it fell on deaf ears. Concerning indeed,

 

[Subsistence]

Well, this might sound a bit blunt, but it would seem to me from reading the above post #39 that there's something about you (or your household) that they're not comfortable about.
Sit down and have a long hard think about what it might be.
An FEO of very long-standing experience once told me that they can generally tell within a few minutes of walking into a house whether or not they'd be happy with firearms being there. It's all down to "atmosphere", as he put it.

I have recently moved into a council flat, not what I wanted, but unfortunately that's the situation I'm in. I live alone, apart from having my kids for 3 days a week.

He did mention concerns over the nighbours, said he smelt cannabis in the hall, but it clearly wasnt from my flat. however I can't really do much about that. There original Problem of not having my own ground was brought up and I enquired that if I did find my own land to shoot would the nighbours stop my application from being granted and was told no, it would just be noted.

Obviously I'm not advertising my firarms to anyone in the building or otherwise, and am taking precautions to make sure that I'm not seem carrying my firarms.

 

[User00056]

I tried to point out that the standard was good reason, and not need, however it fell on deaf ears. Concerning indeed,

I would definitely be considering a formal complaint. I have four rifles. I 'need' none of them. I do, however, have 'good reasons' to own and use them.

 

[VSS]

I have recently moved into a council flat, not what I wanted, but unfortunately that's the situation I'm in. I live alone, apart from having my kids for 3 days a week.

He did mention concerns over the nighbours, said he smelt cannabis in the hall, but it clearly wasnt from my flat. however I can't really do much about that. There original Problem of not having my own ground was brought up and I enquired that if I did find my own land to shoot would the nighbours stop my application from being granted and wastold no, it would just be noted.

Obviously I'm not advertising my firarms to anyone in the building or otherwise, and am taking promotions to make sure that I'm not seem carrying my firarms.

Sorry to say it, but I can understand them wanting to check and double check and check again.

 

[gixer1]

Get the shooting org onto this - pronto, she’s an imbecile if she thinks asking about your storage is reasonable - it’s got nothing to do with them, end of.

We (and ALL the shooting orgs) need to push to get consistency - this absolute garbage service should not be tolerated, if it was the other way round they would throw the book at you.

I hope you get this nonsense sorted out soon, and feel embarrassed for the department you are dealing with, I am in NE Scotland and our firearms dept as a general rule is excellent - I will make a special mention to one of the FEO’s - Doug Donald - he is efficient, competent and approaches questions and unknowns in a realistic and pragmatic manner - nothing like what you are experiencing.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[User00056]

Sorry to say it, but I can understand them wanting to check and double check and check again.

As long as the applicant is a suitable candidate, meets the guidance, and can demonstrate good reason, and appropriate security, then the proclivities of those who aren't part of his household surely shouldn't be unfairly used as a block to his application

 

[Bo Diddley]

Your personal situation is what they are concerned about.
Living in a council flat is unfortunately far from ideal if you are after your FAC.
I live in rural Norfolk, in a nice village, my FEO was concerned about the open farmland at the bottom of my garden... apparently anyone could just walk into the garden and up to the rear of the house.. I told him, "It's not happened in the last 40 years, so I doubt it's likely to happen any time soon".

 

[VSS]

As long as the applicant is a suitable candidate, meets the guidance, and can demonstrate good reason, and appropriate security, then the proclivities of those who aren't part of his household surely shouldn't be unfairly used as a block to his application

There's a lot we don't know:
Age of his kids.
Who they associate with.
Any animosity with previous partner.
Overall level of security in the flats.
Etc etc etc.

While on the face of it the OP appears to be being placed under excessive scrutiny, we'd be the first to be blaming the police if a FAC were granted under unsuitable circumstances. And it may be that the circumstances are not suitable.
So, check and double check and check again.
I hope he gets it, after it's been duly considered. But if not, and he's committed to a change in lifestyle (as he says he is), then he can focus on that side of things and reapply at a time when his application may be viewed in a better light.

 

[Subsistence]

This had also been my

Get the shooting org onto this - pronto, she’s an imbecile if she thinks asking about your storage is reasonable - it’s got nothing to do with them, end of.

We (and ALL the shooting orgs) need to push to get consistency - this absolute garbage service should not be tolerated, if it was the other way round they would throw the book at you.

I hope you get this nonsense sorted out soon, and feel embarrassed for the department you are dealing with, I am in NE Scotland and our firearms dept as a general rule is excellent - I will make a special mention to one of the FEO’s - Doug Donald - he is efficient, competent and approaches questions and unknowns in a realistic and pragmatic manner - nothing like what you are experiencing.

Regards,
Gixer

Experience with my department for both my AWL and SGC.

Get the shooting org onto this - pronto, she’s an imbecile if she thinks asking about your storage is reasonable - it’s got nothing to do with them, end of.

We (and ALL the shooting orgs) need to push to get consistency - this absolute garbage service should not be tolerated, if it was the other way round they would throw the book at you.

I hope you get this nonsense sorted out soon, and feel embarrassed for the department you are dealing with, I am in NE Scotland and our firearms dept as a general rule is excellent - I will make a special mention to one of the FEO’s - Doug Donald - he is efficient, competent and approaches questions and unknowns in a realistic and pragmatic manner - nothing like what you are experiencing.

Regards,
Gixer

This had also been my experience with my previous FEO who had delt with my AWL and SGC. No nonsense, factual, supportive and informed. Not sure if he left or I just got appointed somebody else.

 

[Subsistence]

There's a lot we don't know:
Age of his kids.
Who they associate with.
Any animosity with previous partner.
Overall level of security in the flats.
Etc etc etc.

While on the face of it the OP appears to be being placed under excessive scrutiny, we'd be the first to be blaming the police if a FAC were granted under unsuitable circumstances. And it may be that the circumstances are not suitable.
So, check and double check and check again.
I hope he gets it, after it's been duly considered. But if not, and he's committed to a change in lifestyle (as he says he is), then he can focus on that side of things and reapply at a time when his application may be viewed in a better light.

My kids are 7 and 10, they associate with the family and other primary school children. They where not even mentioned at my home visit.

There is no animosity with the Ex we are good friends, and nothing has changed on that front since being granted my other certificates.

Flats are pretty secure I'm up on the second floor, no easy window access.

Electronic locking front door, obviously I also lock my personal front door, they where happy with my cabinet instalation, both of them in the corner firmly attached to the fabric of the building inside a large cupboard in my bedroom, knobody would know they where there unless I pointed them out.

 

[User00056]

There's a lot we don't know:

As always though, really.

All we can do is offer advice based on the information we're given

 

[VSS]

My kids are 7 and 10, they associate with the family and other primary school children. They where not even mentioned at my home visit.

There is no animosity with the Ex we are good friends, and nothing has changed on that front since being granted my other certificates.

Flats are pretty secure I'm up on the second floor, no easy window access.

Electronic locking front door, obviously I also lock my personal front door, they where happy with my cabinet instalation, both of them in the corner firmly attached to the fabric of the building inside a large cupboard in my bedroom, knobody would know they where there unless I pointed them out.

I hope you get it sorted OK

 

[Subsistence]

I hope you get it sorted OK

Thanks, I hope so too.

I'm confident I meet the standard, now that I have secured a syndicate place, so will just have to see what they say next.

Again thanks for all the input chaps.

 

[User00056]

Best of luck

 

[Chris Richardson]

Slight update (of sorts)

Basc scotland tell me its possible to get an FAC approved for paid stalks, however they are more reluctant to do this than in other parts of the UK, this may be the case but as others have posted there experiences it seems a bit hit and miss on who you get. Anyway the point is a bit moot now as I am finalising a syndicate place.

My FEO who up untill the visit, generally replied very promptly (Same day) seems to stop responding to email and phone calls. I had asked her to put in writing why they suggested I withdraw my application in its current form, And also to tell me who the person was that accompanied her but did not introduce himself.

At someone else's advice I contacted the licencing team instead of the FEO regarding my application, however they said they didn't know the ins and outs of my application, and that they would get my FEO to call me back as she was definitely working that day. That was on Monday and yet again she did not call me on Monday or Tuesday.

This morning I got this email from her -

Good Morning James



I can confirm that I have received communication from Firearms Licensing regarding the information provided. Please be aware that I had days off and I have a number of enquiries ongoing at the same time. I am not able to immediately return calls as I am out of the office a lot. I do not have an allocated contact number to make calls when I’m mobile.



Can you confirm where you intend to keep any deer that you shoot if your planning to be able to live off what is shot on the land.



I will allocate time to complete your enquiry within the timescales that I’m given, and I will return your call when possible.



Thank you



Sharon



PC Sharon Hepburn

Firearms Enquiry Officer



What in the world is that middle paragraph, I have a large larder fridge, and also a chest freezer that is my game freezer. Anybody else had to answer these bizarre questions? Surly that's just my buisness and nothing to do with Firearms licencing.

Subsistence

not shocked basc werent much help ...... as for what you will do with your deer that is absolutely none of their buisness id be lodging a complaint

 

[Heym SR20]

….I

 

[Heym SR20]

Given the email you have from your FEO, she is asking questions that you can provide good answers to.

FEOs are in the difficult of having to support your application to the chief officer of Police. Antagonism towards them, either direct or via Internet forums (and yes they do look at them, certainly at my last renewal my FEO identified me as Heym SR20).

By clearly having the facilities to process and store venison you are supporting your need for a rifle.

I would also get letters from the guides who you have used in the past. You might have to write tge letters for them - something along the lines of.

“To Police Scotland

I can confirm that James ….. has stalked regularly with us over the last few years as a paying guest of xyz estate whilst gaining experience prior to achieving his DSC1 and applying for his own FAC and rifle. He was recently with us date and date. We would happily host him again and confirm that we have pencilled dates for later this year and early next.

Yours etc.

In other words, give the FEO the ammunition she needs to support your application so that the Chief of Police can sign it off.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Given the email you have from your FEO, she is asking questions that you can provide good answers to.

FEOs are in the difficult of having to support your application to the chief officer of Police. Antagonism towards them, either direct or via Internet forums (and yes they do look at them, certainly at my last renewal my FEO identified me as Heym SR20).

By clearly having the facilities to process and store venison you are supporting your need for a rifle.

I would also get letters from the guides who you have used in the past. You might have to write tge letters for them - something along the lines of.

“To Police Scotland

I can confirm that James ….. has stalked regularly with us over the last few years as a paying guest of xyz estate whilst gaining experience prior to achieving his DSC1 and applying for his own FAC and rifle. He was recently with us date and date. We would happily host him again and confirm that we have pencilled dates for later this year and early next.

Yours etc.

In other words, give the FEO the ammunition she needs to support your application so that the Chief of Police can sign it off.

processing and storing venison has zero to do with good reason for an application