Smellydog
Well-Known Member
And they dropped them because it was the wrong direction
Leccy cars.
- Thread starter kenbro
- Start date
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Nope, they are shite.
Now go check how many units it does actually take to charge the shite up.
Then check how much is actually needed through the grid to charge the shite up.
Then notice how the bloody wind ain't blowing which means the gas and coal power stations are charging the shite up.
Now factor how much fossil fuel was burnt to make the pile of shite idylists like to drive around with their dumb pias grinning faces.
Muppets.
Now, now dear, don't get excited, you'll bust you pooping string- and then the EV powered ambulance will have to come and take you away 
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmm.
I donāt have ameter dog running in this race but I find the debate and assorted viewpoints fascinating as ever and am impressed (generally) with the apparent knowledge (real or imaginary) of the many SD inputs. So much so that it really did make me thinkā¦.
Now I thought this made interesting reading:-
Then I read this:-
Perhaps not ācurrentā information but if broadly correct just how many people are aware of the detail and if prospective buyers were aware, would they still purchase an EV? There also remains significant doubt about just how green this whole initiative actually is and the ticking bomb of how Insurance Companies will react to the now well-known implications for drivers with damaged EVsā¦..
For me converting to EV is not an option largely because of the distances involved and the quite frankly appalling statistics above. Then factor into the mix that at least one āleadingā EV manufacturer - pretty much lied from the outset about mileage potential and indeed set up teams to perpetuate the myth and I smell a furry little beast with a scaly tail. There is also the step-change required in living habits and dare I say it convenience, in having the much reduced mileage which cannot be sorted by a ten-minute visit to the local garage and the Lancaster bomber tail-gunnerās twitch through constantly looking at your remaining ājuiceā dial.
Sooo, I am not at all convinced by the hyperbole and the claimed environmental benefits by those far more righteous than I. Just call me old-fashioned, even selfish, but EVs are not for me, period.
Just saying likeā¦.
I donāt have a
Now I thought this made interesting reading:-
āTen popular EV models and how long it takes to charge them
Wondering how long it takes to charge different EV models using a level 2 charger from the recommended 20% to 80%? Here are some examples using ten of the most popular fleet EV models. Level 2 chargers are the most common and versatile chargers for light and some medium duty electric fleet vehicles.| Year | Make | Model | Battery capacity | Max charge L2 rate | Approx. time to L2 charge 20%-80% | Approx. Range added |
| 2021 | VW | ID.4 Pro | 82 kWh | 11.0 kW | 4.5 hours | 156 miles |
| 2021 | Tesla | Model 3 SR+ | 54 kWh | 7.6 kW | 4.2 hours | 157 miles |
| 2021 | Tesla | Model 3 LR | 82 kWh | 11.5 kW | 4.3 hours | 212 miles |
| 2021 | Ford | Mustang Mach e Select RWD | 68 kWh | 10.5 kW | 3.9 hours | 138 miles |
| 2021 | Chevrolet | Bolt | 66 kWh | 11.0 kW | 3.6 hours | 155 miles |
| 2021 | Nissan | Leaf | 40 kWh | 6.6 kW | 3.6 hours | 90 miles |
| 2022 | Ford | E Transit | 67 kWh | 11.3 kW | 3.6 hours | 76 miles |
| 2022 | Rivian | R1T | 135 kWh | 11.5 kW | 7.0 hours | 188 miles |
| 2021 | Polestar | 2 FWD | 64 kWh | 11.0 kW | 3.5 hours | 159 miles |
| 2021 | Polestar | 2 AWD | 78 kWh | 11.0 kW | 4.2 hours | 149 miles |
Then I read this:-
āCalculate how long it takes to charge your EV in four easy steps
You can determine how long it takes to charge your EVs in four easy steps.- Step 1: Battery capacity (kWh)
- Step 2: Max charging rate of vehicle (kW)
- Step 3: Max charging rate of charger (kW)
- Step 4: Battery capacity / The lesser number of Step 2 and 3 = Time to Charge
- Step 1: Battery capacity (82 kWh)
- Step 2: Max charging rate of vehicle (22 kW)
- Step 3: Max charging rate of charger (11.5 kW)
- Step 4: 82kWh / 11.5kW = 7.13 hours
Perhaps not ācurrentā information but if broadly correct just how many people are aware of the detail and if prospective buyers were aware, would they still purchase an EV? There also remains significant doubt about just how green this whole initiative actually is and the ticking bomb of how Insurance Companies will react to the now well-known implications for drivers with damaged EVsā¦..
For me converting to EV is not an option largely because of the distances involved and the quite frankly appalling statistics above. Then factor into the mix that at least one āleadingā EV manufacturer - pretty much lied from the outset about mileage potential and indeed set up teams to perpetuate the myth and I smell a furry little beast with a scaly tail. There is also the step-change required in living habits and dare I say it convenience, in having the much reduced mileage which cannot be sorted by a ten-minute visit to the local garage and the Lancaster bomber tail-gunnerās twitch through constantly looking at your remaining ājuiceā dial.
Sooo, I am not at all convinced by the hyperbole and the claimed environmental benefits by those far more righteous than I. Just call me old-fashioned, even selfish, but EVs are not for me, period.
Just saying likeā¦.
Itās a good point but I wonder if they habitually do long journeys like we do in the UK? I love Norwegian infrastructure - itās all modern and works irrespective of weather and that includes the peopleā¦Here, only some things work and that doesnāt include Vauxhall EVās in cold weather or the threadbare map of slow EV chargers, although itās getting there - slowly. I rarely do journeys of less than 100 miles for work and Iām lucky to get that on a stated range of 180 in a Mokka-e. The biggest issue is time lost on chargers to get to 90%. I donāt doubt that more expensive EVās are better, if you can charge at home and stay local. Iām going hybrid until it works better for me - and then Iāll retire!Norway has the highest number of electric cars in the world per head of population - and it also gets very, very cold in Norway
However, it simply doesn't seem to be a problem there - unless you're anti EV
Cheers
Bruce
You are spot on - itās not for everyone but the EV is pushed as a universal replacement for ICE - which it isnāt. It is, however like having a dog - you meet people you would never otherwise speak to at charging stations and that can be fun. Sometimes. There is always one that wonāt pick up after their EV, letās it bother other cars and hangs the charger cable on a tree for others to dispose ofā¦you know who you areHmm.
I donāt have ameterdog running in this race but I find the debate and assorted viewpoints fascinating as ever and am impressed (generally) with the apparent knowledge (real or imaginary) of the many SD inputs. So much so that it really did make me thinkā¦.
Now I thought this made interesting reading:-
āTen popular EV models and how long it takes to charge them
Wondering how long it takes to charge different EV models using a level 2 charger from the recommended 20% to 80%? Here are some examples using ten of the most popular fleet EV models. Level 2 chargers are the most common and versatile chargers for light and some medium duty electric fleet vehicles.
Year Make Model Battery capacity Max charge L2 rate Approx. time to L2 charge 20%-80% Approx. Range added 2021 VW ID.4 Pro 82 kWh 11.0 kW 4.5 hours 156 miles 2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+ 54 kWh 7.6 kW 4.2 hours 157 miles 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR 82 kWh 11.5 kW 4.3 hours 212 miles 2021 Ford Mustang Mach e Select RWD 68 kWh 10.5 kW 3.9 hours 138 miles 2021 Chevrolet Bolt 66 kWh 11.0 kW 3.6 hours 155 miles 2021 Nissan Leaf 40 kWh 6.6 kW 3.6 hours 90 miles 2022 Ford E Transit 67 kWh 11.3 kW 3.6 hours 76 miles 2022 Rivian R1T 135 kWh 11.5 kW 7.0 hours 188 miles 2021 Polestar 2 FWD 64 kWh 11.0 kW 3.5 hours 159 miles 2021 Polestar 2 AWD 78 kWh 11.0 kW 4.2 hours 149 miles
Then I read this:-
āCalculate how long it takes to charge your EV in four easy steps
You can determine how long it takes to charge your EVs in four easy steps.
Example: Tesla Model 3 LR
- Step 1: Battery capacity (kWh)
- Step 2: Max charging rate of vehicle (kW)
- Step 3: Max charging rate of charger (kW)
- Step 4: Battery capacity / The lesser number of Step 2 and 3 = Time to Charge
This means that it will take approximately 7 hours to charge the vehicle from empty to full if the vehicleās charger allows energy to flow at a constant rate of 11.5kW the entire time. Keep in mind that this is approximate and does not consider the reduced rate of charge that would flow from the first 0-10% and the last 20%.ā.
- Step 1: Battery capacity (82 kWh)
- Step 2: Max charging rate of vehicle (22 kW)
- Step 3: Max charging rate of charger (11.5 kW)
- Step 4: 82kWh / 11.5kW = 7.13 hours
Perhaps not ācurrentā information but if broadly correct just how many people are aware of the detail and if prospective buyers were aware, would they still purchase an EV? There also remains significant doubt about just how green this whole initiative actually is and the ticking bomb of how Insurance Companies will react to the now well-known implications for drivers with damaged EVsā¦..
For me converting to EV is not an option largely because of the distances involved and the quite frankly appalling statistics above. Then factor into the mix that at least one āleadingā EV manufacturer - pretty much lied from the outset about mileage potential and indeed set up teams to perpetuate the myth and I smell a furry little beast with a scaly tail. There is also the step-change required in living habits and dare I say it convenience, in having the much reduced mileage which cannot be sorted by a ten-minute visit to the local garage and the Lancaster bomber tail-gunnerās twitch through constantly looking at your remaining ājuiceā dial.
Sooo, I am not at all convinced by the hyperbole and the claimed environmental benefits by those far more righteous than I. Just call me old-fashioned, even selfish, but EVs are not for me, period.
Just saying likeā¦.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Diesel ambulances here buddy. They don't want to start a cremation service for patients just yet....Now, now dear, don't get excited, you'll bust you pooping string- and then the EV powered ambulance will have to come and take you away
Cheers
Bruce
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
And the source of their wealth ?
Ah yes Fossil Fuel, ironic.
They build a wealth fund and infra structure we blow our opportunity on a bloated public sector and handouts to the workshy.
Clever bunch to Scans.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Where EVs definitely donāt make any sense is for HGVs. These run 24/7 and typically doing 8mpg.
There are some Electric Trucks, but the cost Ā£1/2m, 20 times the charging capacity of a car and you loose about 4 tonnes of payload.
We have calculated it will need another 200 Nuclear Power Stations across Europe if we want to put the HGV fleet on pure electric, or hydrogen power.
One of my clients has developed an energy recovery system that is retrofittable to existing trucks, reduces fuel by 25%, increases traction and pays for itself in 12 to 18 months and only weighs 200kg.
In use, it is like have an electric boost on your bike. We are using ultra capacitors for the energy storage. In trials in France, South Africa and Australia with major HGV players.
There are some Electric Trucks, but the cost Ā£1/2m, 20 times the charging capacity of a car and you loose about 4 tonnes of payload.
We have calculated it will need another 200 Nuclear Power Stations across Europe if we want to put the HGV fleet on pure electric, or hydrogen power.
One of my clients has developed an energy recovery system that is retrofittable to existing trucks, reduces fuel by 25%, increases traction and pays for itself in 12 to 18 months and only weighs 200kg.
In use, it is like have an electric boost on your bike. We are using ultra capacitors for the energy storage. In trials in France, South Africa and Australia with major HGV players.
I believe there are robots for building houses - whether bricklaying, I'm not sure, but I think for 3D printing concrete. Much of the expense of construction is red tape anyway, a robot to replace the ludicrous hoops, and assorted parasite industries, in the planning system would be more productive.
Or a cleaning and ironing robot?
Now that is indeed very interesting, though I would perhaps caution going so far as to say "Where EV's definitely don't make any sense is for HGV's."
As it happens, my day job entails optimising transportation - and particularly freight transportation. It is an area I have worked in for nearly 25 years, and so have some experience of the challenges this entails.
Whilst my work covers all modes of transport, trucks account for just 2% of the total vehicle fleet in Europe but generate 23% of the total emissions. So it is little wonder they come under such scrutiny from companies - and governments - looking to reduce their CO2 emissions. Also keep in mind that, according to the EU's own figures, just over one-fifth of road freight journeys were performed by empty vehicles. If we don't solve these kind of problems, it is unlikely those much-vaunted CO2 reduction targets will be met.
Coincidentally I have recently been doing some work with one of the largest truck manufacturers in the world, who currently account for the highest proportion of electric trucks sold here in Europe.
The majority of these EV's are used for urban distribution, as you might expect, since load capacity is not quite such the same issue with urban multi-stop deliveries as it is for longer haul. Also in urban areas ranges are limited and recharging is easily pre-planned.
However this manufacturer is also shortly to release an HGV with a range of over 250km, and they have plans well advanced in the pipeline for a similar vehicle with a range of over 600km. The cost of these vehicles, as you rightly point out, several times greater than that of ICE powered vehicles.
However they will still be viable, particularly in predictable, "closed loop", deliveries between pre-defined locations, such as running between regional distribution centers, between ports/airports or production and storage facilities, etc. These type of journeys are also being looked at from an autonomous vehicle perspective, and there are several trials already underway. These type of EV's may also make sense in some geographies, such as the Nordics, where they can run drawbar units that allow you to run a truck/trailer + trailer combination from, say, a distribution center to a regional city, where you then drop the drawbar and use the truck/trailer for urban deliveries (which frequently have vehicle restricitions anyway), returning to the drawbar to replenish and make further deliveries. Whilst the drawbar is parked, it provides an opportunity to charge a battery which, although not in the power unit itself, could still theoretically be used to run the vehicle.
Where HGV's in particular will struggle is on unpredictable trips, which form the majority of journeys they are used for. With these, the whole area of battery capacity, remaining power, battery drain, charging infrastructure, vehicle range, etc. presents some significant challenges. To solve them will require a level of investment that, to be honest, will make many governments blanche. These challenges carry over directly into the area of freight optimisation, and will inevitably have a significant impact in terms of the cost of transportation. This will directly impact the price of the goods that we buy. To manage electric HGV's effectively is also going to require a significant investment in real-time communication, not just with the power unit itself, but also with the trailer and any ancillary equipment such as refrigeration units, and in some cases even with the cargo.
What all the above waffle is really saying is that, if electric HGV's are to become a workable reality - which I believe they must do if we wish to have a significant impact on reducing CO2 - then it will require monumental changes in our charging infrastructure and power-generating capacity, as well as an acceptance that the consumer is going to have to pay an increased price for the goods that they purchase.
These are costs associated with the whole "net zero" project that I don't believe are really even on the radar yet, nor wish to be discussed by the advocates of reducing carbon emissions. The good news is that, once the impact of these costs come out into the open, I think we will see a lot more of the type of innovations that your client has come up with, as there remains plenty of scope to improve the way we currently operate.
However at the moment all the focus is on electric cars, which, if we are honest, is more about consumer lifestyle choices.
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
I saw this and assumed it was a long and tedious waffle - Iām glad I read it, very interesting and informative. Thank you.
No problem - though your initial assumption is probably a fair summary of 99% of my posts!
Mm finish work 3am drive to Dover, ferry to France. Motorway to our favourite seaside in Belgium.
Park at the hotel go to bed ,10 to 12 hours in our naughty 53 mpg diesel.
Or stop every couple of hours to charge an Ev
.double/ triple journey time if you find a working charger each stop .
Paying many dollars service stations price.
Hoping the car doesn't cremate the ferry, nah il give it a miss thanks.
Maybe in ten years time if battery tech is vastly improved but not at the minute.
Some believe in the electric fairy I don't.
We are running Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired power station as we can't generate enough green energy as its cold
Park at the hotel go to bed ,10 to 12 hours in our naughty 53 mpg diesel.
Or stop every couple of hours to charge an Ev
.double/ triple journey time if you find a working charger each stop .Paying many dollars service stations price.
Hoping the car doesn't cremate the ferry, nah il give it a miss thanks.
Maybe in ten years time if battery tech is vastly improved but not at the minute.
Some believe in the electric fairy I don't.
We are running Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired power station as we can't generate enough green energy as its cold
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Actually this whole argument is completely missing the point.
Once upon a time not that long ago we got along perfectly well without cars. We lived in small towns and villages. Your local town provided pretty much all you needed. Local butcher and greengrocers would be directly supplied by local farms. The bank branch was in the town and the bank manager knew all his clients by first name, there would be an insurance broker where you got your insurances, the Dr could attend to most of your needs and a local cottage hospital could cope with the vast majority of your treatment. There would lots of employment - the bank had five to ten people, ditto the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. There may well some industry close buy, and of course agriculture employed a lot. But local builders would use local materials, supplied by local people.
Nowadays in the name of commercialism
Most of us buy our good from supermarkets.
New housing is far away from any shops
Farms are factories working on contract to supermarkets, so farm products are trucked from the farm to a central processing unit at the other end of the country to be turned into convenience foods in vacuum packed portions with lots of branded packaging, that then goes to a central distribution hub, that then gets delivered out to the supermarket, where you drive to buy it, to take it home. And you buy it as you drive home from the big town or city ( which you canāt afford to live in ) where you have spent all day in a large open plan office dealing with mortgage applications or whatever.
Whereas in the past you would have taken the lambs from the farm to the local butcher in the back of the van. You would have walked round the corner to deposit the moneyās from the lamb in the local bank and exchanged pleasantries with the back manager looking forward to the shooting season. You would pop into the hardware store and agricultural merchants for bits and pieces. And walk back to the butcher by which time the lambs would have unloaded and on the hook and skinned. One would be in bits in the back of the van for your own consumption, along with a joint of beef (that came in a few days before).
The following day the store owners and bank manager would pop into the butcher and buy some lamb chops for their tea. And then walk home popping into The pub that has beer from the brewery which is five miles away, and beer is brewed from barley supplied from local farms.
Most still do similar jobs, but all the jobs have been centralised. So we all commute many hours each day. And our food goes many hundreds of miles in the opposite direction. And we drink in pubs owned by multinationals with bland beer brewed with barley from all over the world.
It is just utter madness when you think about it.
Once upon a time not that long ago we got along perfectly well without cars. We lived in small towns and villages. Your local town provided pretty much all you needed. Local butcher and greengrocers would be directly supplied by local farms. The bank branch was in the town and the bank manager knew all his clients by first name, there would be an insurance broker where you got your insurances, the Dr could attend to most of your needs and a local cottage hospital could cope with the vast majority of your treatment. There would lots of employment - the bank had five to ten people, ditto the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. There may well some industry close buy, and of course agriculture employed a lot. But local builders would use local materials, supplied by local people.
Nowadays in the name of commercialism
Most of us buy our good from supermarkets.
New housing is far away from any shops
Farms are factories working on contract to supermarkets, so farm products are trucked from the farm to a central processing unit at the other end of the country to be turned into convenience foods in vacuum packed portions with lots of branded packaging, that then goes to a central distribution hub, that then gets delivered out to the supermarket, where you drive to buy it, to take it home. And you buy it as you drive home from the big town or city ( which you canāt afford to live in ) where you have spent all day in a large open plan office dealing with mortgage applications or whatever.
Whereas in the past you would have taken the lambs from the farm to the local butcher in the back of the van. You would have walked round the corner to deposit the moneyās from the lamb in the local bank and exchanged pleasantries with the back manager looking forward to the shooting season. You would pop into the hardware store and agricultural merchants for bits and pieces. And walk back to the butcher by which time the lambs would have unloaded and on the hook and skinned. One would be in bits in the back of the van for your own consumption, along with a joint of beef (that came in a few days before).
The following day the store owners and bank manager would pop into the butcher and buy some lamb chops for their tea. And then walk home popping into The pub that has beer from the brewery which is five miles away, and beer is brewed from barley supplied from local farms.
Most still do similar jobs, but all the jobs have been centralised. So we all commute many hours each day. And our food goes many hundreds of miles in the opposite direction. And we drink in pubs owned by multinationals with bland beer brewed with barley from all over the world.
It is just utter madness when you think about it.
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