And so it begins

[Ross22]

To me it comes down to acceptable risk. Currently there is no-to-little acceptable risk to human interests from predators.
Humans don’t like the fact that wolves eat their sheep so they kill all the wolves, they don’t like that foxes eat their chickens so they kill every fox, they don’t like magpies eating eggs so the kill magpies. I saw a black bird eating dozens of worms yesterday, should we kill blackbirds to protect the worms?


Surely there is a balance where we can change our view on controlling nature and learn to live with wolves taking the odd sheep or foxes killing the odd chicken.
We can use our adaptability and incredibly powerful brains to figure out solutions to protect our livestock against a changing environment.

I’m not a farmer, I don’t have sheep but I’m allowed a voice to say that maybe just because we have always done it this way that we always should.
If it wasn’t for our ability to embrace change, we would still be swinging in the savannah in East Africa.

 

[BenBhoy]

I saw a black bird eating dozens of worms yesterday, should we kill blackbirds to protect the worms?

I base it on populations. If something is at risk of becoming extinct, locally or globally, and we have the ability to prevent that, then why wouldn't you?

 

[Camdig]

The two stories above are very interesting, rewilding one is about 3 million acre Buffalo reserve and the guy from the rewilding Prairie company sells rewilding perfectly.
The wolves one is where rewilding by force with no care for local people, both extremely interesting and the consensus is that it all needs management by man one way or an other bearing in mind the State of Montana is 90 million acres with population of 5-6 million and Scotland is 19 million acres with a population of 5-6 million.
While I am sympathetic to rewilding it has to be done with food production and security as a major principle, also has to be a beneficial and coexist with existing land uses.

 

[Bowland blades]

Having seen the culprit it defies belief that the Magpie has been removed from the general licence in Wales.

View attachment 355777

I mostly stopped shooting them , if they are not well over populated or in critical locations . They do a pretty good job of clearing up the sick and the dead , also slugs the bain of many a grower . I say mostly but i will only allow a limited number . Lets be careful not to go head to head with any holding good proven data . A pest is where it is not what it is as always . Whole of Wales though ? That's not right is it available on special ? If you had highly threatened species nesting in a spot of high Magpie population

 

[TURNBOLT]

Just nature doing its thing, somethings are prey and some things are predators. The sooner we leave nature to do what it has been doing for very much longer then our species has been playing god, the better.

Rubbish .My/our generation has seen such a plethora of bird life because of human intervention.With ideas like this no wonder 60% + of our bird life has vanished.

 

[jall55]

Totally agree which is why I would personally be in favour of reintroducing predators (I know there are downsides, but there are with everything)

I personally don’t buy into the belief that killing more predators (Corvids, raptors, foxes) will help redress the balance.

I understand that this situation has been created by man, but I really feel that nature knows best and if we were to use our might to try to bring our natural environment back to a level that is more in balance with natures needs and human needs then that is no bad thing.
More regenerative farming than rewilding every farm and learning to live alongside the good and bad of the natural world rather that remove the ‘bad’ and protect the ‘good’

Again just my thoughts I’m genuinely interested in hearing others

I have shot with my pal over 1000 crows and jacks - but mainly crows on one farm in one field this last year !
Imagine the damage they would have done

 

[jall55]

I mostly stopped shooting them , if they are not well over populated or in critical locations . They do a pretty good job of clearing up the sick and the dead , also slugs the bain of many a grower . I say mostly but i will only allow a limited number . Lets be careful not to go head to head with any holding good proven data . A pest is where it is not what it is as always . Whole of Wales though ? That's not right is it available on special ? If you had highly threatened species nesting in a spot of high Magpie population

I think all locations now are becoming critical

 

[Ratcatcher]

To me it comes down to acceptable risk. Currently there is no-to-little acceptable risk to human interests from predators.
Humans don’t like the fact that wolves eat their sheep so they kill all the wolves, they don’t like that foxes eat their chickens so they kill every fox, they don’t like magpies eating eggs so the kill magpies. I saw a black bird eating dozens of worms yesterday, should we kill blackbirds to protect the worms?


Surely there is a balance where we can change our view on controlling nature and learn to live with wolves taking the odd sheep or foxes killing the odd chicken.
We can use our adaptability and incredibly powerful brains to figure out solutions to protect our livestock against a changing environment.

I’m not a farmer, I don’t have sheep but I’m allowed a voice to say that maybe just because we have always done it this way that we always should.
If it wasn’t for our ability to embrace change, we would still be swinging in the savannah in East Africa.

As someone who has lived and worked in a rural environment all his life I must point out to you that foxes don't eat an odd chicken, and wolves don't take the odd sheep, they both kill as many as they're able to as quickly as possible, if it was as you claim " an odd one " then i doubt the fox would be as feared as it is, our local chicken keeper, lost all 18 of her hens in one night, only one was missing. I really would ask you to consider what a wolf is likely to catch, a deer that has superb senses can run at 45 miles an hour and clear a 5 foot hedge in a blink of an eye or a sheep who's senses might be fairly described as "challenged" and would have a heart attack if it hit 15 miles an hour and might with a good run up clear a crisp packet, you're right to say we should welcome other points of view but really, they have to be honest and sensible

 

[jall55]

To me it comes down to acceptable risk. Currently there is no-to-little acceptable risk to human interests from predators.
Humans don’t like the fact that wolves eat their sheep so they kill all the wolves, they don’t like that foxes eat their chickens so they kill every fox, they don’t like magpies eating eggs so the kill magpies. I saw a black bird eating dozens of worms yesterday, should we kill blackbirds to protect the worms?


Surely there is a balance where we can change our view on controlling nature and learn to live with wolves taking the odd sheep or foxes killing the odd chicken.
We can use our adaptability and incredibly powerful brains to figure out solutions to protect our livestock against a changing environment.

I’m not a farmer, I don’t have sheep but I’m allowed a voice to say that maybe just because we have always done it this way that we always should.
If it wasn’t for our ability to embrace change, we would still be swinging in the savannah in East Africa.

I feel for you Ross where you frequent must be very dull

I control the predators / feed / manage as does Ben above - Our land is an absolute oasis amongst some of our neighbours - although i am trying my best to bring some of them on the journey
As countrymen we really have a duty to do our best protecting other species that are suffering because nature is so out of balance

 

[Dave Lakes]

Ross, reference the re-introduction of predators (the likes of wolves), I don’t worry about the impact on humans. My worry is that once they’re reintroduced, if we then find out that we’ve made a mistake (e.g they’re killing too many deer) there isn’t anything we can do about it, and we all know that it will likely not be tolerated to then introduce more human intervention to cull wolf numbers.

If we control deer numbers by shooting them, we can just stop shooting them if we’re getting the balance wrong.

I’m sure you’ll retort that nature will balance itself, but again I’m afraid it just won’t. If, as we’re told, wolves will target deer first (which I dispute, but anyway) then let’s say they wipe out most of the deer. In a truly natural environment, wolf numbers would start crashing, allowing deer to make a comeback, and the cycle would reset. However what will actually happen is that wolves won’t just accept dying of starvation, they will go after other quarry, of which there are multiple abundant sources; livestock, cats/dogs, humans, human food waste. Their numbers will never crash. This is the same with corvids and birds of prey, the same as foxes and their natural quarry, etc etc. I just can’t accept the natural balance argument.

 

[Ross22]

So you’re not in favour of letting nature sort that one out too?
Deer populations are too high because the amount of available land has reduced and their natural predators were removed, both causal factors are directly because of man.
Whether we like it or not, man has intervened in the natural balance of things and not in a good way for most species, corvids however have benefited greatly.

I feel for you Ross where you frequent must be very dull

I control the predators / feed / manage as does Ben above - Our land is an absolute oasis amongst some of our neighbours - although i am trying my best to bring some of them on the journey
As countrymen we really have a duty to do our best protecting other species that are suffering because nature is so out of balance

Maybe the areas I frequent are dull because of generations of over grazing and prioritising economics over nature?

I’ll leave this here, it really encapsulates how I feel about British biodiversity.

“When I consider that the nobler animal have been exterminated here - the cougar, the panther, lynx, wolverine, wolf, bear, moose, dear, the beaver, the turkey and so forth and so forth, I cannot but feel as if I lived in a tamed and, as it were, emasculated country... Is it not a maimed and imperfect nature I am conversing with? As if I were to study a tribe of Indians that had lost all it's warriors...I take infinite pains to know all the phenomena of the spring, for instance, thinking that I have here the entire poem, and then, to my chagrin, I hear that it is but an imperfect copy that I possess and have read, that my ancestors have torn out many of the first leaves and grandest passages, and mutilated it in many places. I should not like to think that some demigod had come before me and picked out some of the best of the stars. I wish to know an entire heaven and an entire earth.”
Henry David Thoreau

 

[jall55]

We can only make the absolute best out of what we have - and that involves culling predators - creating habitats - supplementary feeding

 

[Tim.243]

Maybe the areas I frequent are dull because of generations of over grazing and prioritising economics over nature?

I’ll leave this here, it really encapsulates how I feel about British biodiversity.

“When I consider that the nobler animal have been exterminated here - the cougar, the panther, lynx, wolverine, wolf, bear, moose, dear, the beaver, the turkey and so forth and so forth, I cannot but feel as if I lived in a tamed and, as it were, emasculated country... Is it not a maimed and imperfect nature I am conversing with? As if I were to study a tribe of Indians that had lost all it's warriors...I take infinite pains to know all the phenomena of the spring, for instance, thinking that I have here the entire poem, and then, to my chagrin, I hear that it is but an imperfect copy that I possess and have read, that my ancestors have torn out many of the first leaves and grandest passages, and mutilated it in many places. I should not like to think that some demigod had come before me and picked out some of the best of the stars. I wish to know an entire heaven and an entire earth.”
Henry David Thoreau

Far too romantic.....
He died at 44 only producing words which about sums it up lol

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