Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Is that a samba John?
Killing Power?
- Thread starter Cranborne
- Start date
Cranborne
Well-Known Member
Aagaard's experience as an African PH probably shaped his view. I imagine the worst client would be a poor marksman, who didn't understand the anatomy of the quarry, but turned up with a large calibre rifle.....gut shooting an antelope with a .375 will not result in as quick a death as a well-placed shot from a 30-06 or similar.
A larger calibre should, however, put an animal down more quickly and cleanly than a small calibre if shot in the chest cavity. You do need to know where the vital organs are though, and to to able to reliably put a shot into that area.
A larger calibre should, however, put an animal down more quickly and cleanly than a small calibre if shot in the chest cavity. You do need to know where the vital organs are though, and to to able to reliably put a shot into that area.
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John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
It is a Sambar SD, painted with grey clay wallow mud.
Cripes! We had some "fun" (if you'd maybe not exactly call it that) getting those cases John! The shop now is long gone, closed now maybe four, six, years ago.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
It was well worth it Richard, its another in the safe that needs to come out for a gallop in the hills, or should that be a wallop.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
About 180 kg?
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Killing power is down to a combination of caliber, bullet weight, velocity, placement, the size of the target, the amount of damage you inflict and just where that damage is.
That’s a lot of variables.
The argument over whether a big slow bullet or a small fast one is better started with the shift from black powder to nitro and got ramped up in the 50’s when Jack O Connor and Elmer Keith made a damn fine living sniping at each other.
Elmer was a legendary marksman, but a poor hunter, if he got a shot into the south end of a north bound elk and hit it at 500yds, he believed that the bullet should do its job and penetrate all the way to the lungs. He was also a tough old coot who wasn’t affected by recoil. The bigger the cartridge the better he liked it.
But the bullets he was using just weren’t up to the task.
Elmer thought that anything less than a.300 mag wasn’t enough, he championed the.338, even for deer.
Jack O Connor was on the other side of the fence, he liked the .270 and the 30/06, but he picked his shots.
He was also a better writer than Elmer, but that wasn’t difficult.
With decent marksmanship skills and a surgeon’s knowledge of anatomy you can kill big stuff with very small cartridges.
Most of us aren’t consistently good enough to do that most of the time, so we use something that will destroy more tissue to allow a bit of a margin for less than perfect placement.
All of the mid bore cartridges work well for deer sized targets, but over most of the globe, deer sized is 70Kg + .
Only in Britain do you consider varmint size creatures to be the equivalent of what the rest of us think of as deer.
That’s a lot of variables.
The argument over whether a big slow bullet or a small fast one is better started with the shift from black powder to nitro and got ramped up in the 50’s when Jack O Connor and Elmer Keith made a damn fine living sniping at each other.
Elmer was a legendary marksman, but a poor hunter, if he got a shot into the south end of a north bound elk and hit it at 500yds, he believed that the bullet should do its job and penetrate all the way to the lungs. He was also a tough old coot who wasn’t affected by recoil. The bigger the cartridge the better he liked it.
But the bullets he was using just weren’t up to the task.
Elmer thought that anything less than a.300 mag wasn’t enough, he championed the.338, even for deer.
Jack O Connor was on the other side of the fence, he liked the .270 and the 30/06, but he picked his shots.
He was also a better writer than Elmer, but that wasn’t difficult.
With decent marksmanship skills and a surgeon’s knowledge of anatomy you can kill big stuff with very small cartridges.
Most of us aren’t consistently good enough to do that most of the time, so we use something that will destroy more tissue to allow a bit of a margin for less than perfect placement.
All of the mid bore cartridges work well for deer sized targets, but over most of the globe, deer sized is 70Kg + .
Only in Britain do you consider varmint size creatures to be the equivalent of what the rest of us think of as deer.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
An email date from RL himself.....Thu, 7 Jul 2011, 06:27
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
SmellyD here`s an old prev published pic of a young one I shot after a frig around stalk. He was weighed not long after the shot pre gralloch and the only thing missing would be a bit of blood from his forehead.
On proper scales as is he went 450 lbs. He isn't a patch body wise on the one in the pic that in your question of 180 kgs which equates to a couple of lbs under 400.
I cant answer scientifically but can suggest that there is probably another 100lbs in the wallow stag. Lets say 550 lbs. (250kgs) and probably more.
These are big deer and I have seen and shot bigger models.
pic shows a truly big heavy stag, I shot high on Mt Thorn one miserable wet day. 7mm RM.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Awesome John
.I'd want more "whallop" for them beasts.
We dont have them over here in deluded **** land though mate....!
ATB.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
From what I`ve read there seems to be plenty of SD citizens that are tooled up "just in case"
There actually are Sambar in England, I forget where but some bloke has them. I saw photos of them maybe 8(?) yrs ago.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Aye maybe but its not worth running a .338wm just incase one jumps the fence.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Of course it is, I`m positive that I have read of UK blokes shooting Roe with the 338`s
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Ironically I've always longed fro a 45-70.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Buy one, they are relatively cheap
A bigger hole in the wrong spot though ? Bigger the bullet the greater the recoil and the harder it is to shoot really well in all field stances and the heavier the rifle needs to be to shoot comfortably and the more weight you have to carry .
Of course its a personal choice
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
It’s all academic. A 50gr bullet with 1,000 ft lbs of energy is legal for a Roe Deer weighing perhaps 40kg live weight.
A 376 H&H with a 300gn bullet with a bit 4,000 ft lbs of energy is legal for elephant weighing 5 or 6000 kgs.
As Finn Aagard suggests, provided a bullet can penetrate through the vital organs severing blood vessels the animal won’t survive very long.
If you want to drop it you need to hot major bundles of nerves as well as vital organs.
A good bow with a sharp arrow head with perhaps 200 ft lbs will also kill even the largest animals. And will kill quickly and humanely.
Put any projectile in a place where it doesn’t hit major arteries to the heart it will go a long long way.
A 376 H&H with a 300gn bullet with a bit 4,000 ft lbs of energy is legal for elephant weighing 5 or 6000 kgs.
As Finn Aagard suggests, provided a bullet can penetrate through the vital organs severing blood vessels the animal won’t survive very long.
If you want to drop it you need to hot major bundles of nerves as well as vital organs.
A good bow with a sharp arrow head with perhaps 200 ft lbs will also kill even the largest animals. And will kill quickly and humanely.
Put any projectile in a place where it doesn’t hit major arteries to the heart it will go a long long way.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I remember a rare shot taken with my .308 NM using a Woodleigh hydro 180gr.
Entered a bees dick off quoit centre and exited out the chest, she dropped like a rabbit shot up the freckle with a .22WRF mag.
Entered a bees dick off quoit centre and exited out the chest, she dropped like a rabbit shot up the freckle with a .22WRF mag.
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