His losses are rare? Or his losses to foxes are rare?
Why shoot the foxes?
- Thread starter AlexD
- Start date
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
To fox's.
If he had a ewe or lamb or hog go crook in the night there would be nothing left of it by morning.
A cast on its back ewe this spring not dead had a fox on top of it ripping the abdomen open when I got there. It happened in under one hour the shepherd just checking them before dark.
I don't know about your fox's but around here they are ****s end off....
Well that post pretty much proves my point. Remove the foxes, and the problems that caused the sheep / lambs to be vulnerable to predation continue, unless there's also significant change in management.To fox's.
If he had a ewe or lamb or hog go crook in the night there would be nothing left of it by morning.
A cast on its back ewe this spring not dead had a fox on top of it ripping the abdomen open when I got there. It happened in under one hour the shepherd just checking them before dark.
I don't know about your fox's but around here they are ****s end off....
Ok, let's put it another way.
A fox may eat a cast ewe, but a fox doesn't cause a ewe to become cast. Unless found fairly quickly a cast ewe will die, even if there are no foxes in the area. So a change of management that reduces the number of cast ewes will reduce the number of ewes eaten by foxes, but killing all the foxes won't reduce the number of cast ewes.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Got ya, yes and no. Not enough room to shed the whole flock and to add its not many but when they do do it they often survive fine until next morning or the shepherd or me notice them.
They also can go down as you know and just need some meds/help. Its a shame if they when they get chewed at just because of bad timing.
Aye, there will always be a fox about but left alone there will soon be twenty or more I promise you.
Im not going to even comment about the other things...!
Well I've worked with sheep my whole life, under a huge range of different management regimes, and only very, very rarely have I come across a "fox problem" that wasn't easier sorted by tweaks to the flock management rather than shooting foxes. There's always the odd one, but they're the exception rather than the rule.
On my own farm I have a fair number of foxes. I often watch them through my thermal, going about their business. However, it's many years since I last lost a lamb to a fox. In fact, I've only lost two to foxes in 25 years. I've had dead lambs predated by foxes, but not fox kills. When I find a dead lamb that's been chewed up my first reaction isn't "damn foxes", it's "why did this lamb die?" And 99% of the time the actual cause of death can clearly be attributed to something else, following a bit of detective work. And armed with that knowledge I can take steps to try to prevent the problem occurring again. Shooting the fox wouldn't achieve that.
From a farmer's perspective, these threads can be quite amusing, because you've got the recreational fox shooters thinking they're doing the farmers a massive favour, whereas in reality it's the farmers doing them a favour by providing them with somewhere to shoot. Without that, many FAC holders wouldn't keep their certificates.
If a farmer has a genuine and serious fox problem then generally he'll pay someone to deal with them quickly, professionally and on demand.
Farmers paying: Lets open that can!
If a farmer isn't paying you to sort his fox problem then he hasn't really got a fox problem. He's just humouring your desire to have somewhere to shoot and something to shoot at.Farmers paying: Lets open that can!
Im not sure Tim
A local farmer asked us to go shoot foxes eating killing his lambs - we have had 60 odd in a couple of years or so and his losses - he says are now "minimal " - indeed he says he did not lose any to foxes last year at all
He has not changed any management - all is the same
That's to be expected. You shot the foxes. That doesn't mean he didn't lose any lambs to other causes, which in previous years would have resulted in them being predated by foxes.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I think you misunderstood me.
Sheep getting ill and or dying is the shepherds concern and good shepherds they are. The whole family is involved and for many decades.
The problem with Charlie is when this area gets overwhelmed, and it does. Then there is to much competing. If an sheep fall ill in the night they will, if I dont keep a balance, be predated on before death.
Do my thing and they have a chance.
The upshot for me is total unlimited access to private land to shoot what i want whenever I want.
I scratch their backs and they scratch mine.
I have months of fire wood drying in the sun by way of appreciation.
And hours of enjoyment and you are making a real difference to the rest of nature too
Nickb
Well-Known Member
Farmers pay for nothing , that's why they're so richFarmers paying: Lets open that can!
That's the argument that really stands up
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Yes, I get that, but on its own that piece of data is of no value.
What you need to know is whether, from exactly the same number of ewes, of the same breed, grazing the same fields, and with no changes in management, is he now consistently selling 12 more finished lambs per year than he was before you shot the foxes?
My guess is that he isn't, if all other things remain equal.
Some years will be better and some years will be worse, but in my (considerable) experience it usually takes a fairly significant change (or lots of little changes) to make a lasting reduction in mortality. Culling foxes barely scratches the surface, the effect is so minimal, but it makes people feel like they're doing something about it.
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