Side by Sides - Worth Buying?

[Cranborne]

The price of good modern side by sides keeps on falling. There's plenty of AYA No.2's available for around £1200, with No.1's being £1,000 more. Arrieta and Garbi sidelocks are similar. These are typically choked 1/4 and 1/2 or less, so perfectly usable even if lead is banned. This must be the ideal time to buy one of these guns, or is a new over and under a safer option going forward?

 

[Apthorpe]

Sshhh!

 

[Stimo444]

Nice 16 bore, just a pleasure to use

 

[Bo Diddley]

Quality sidelocks have never been cheaper, every cabinet should have one.

 

[Jamouk]

If God had meant us to use over and unders he wouldn't have out our eyes side by side !

 

[Heym SR20]

Side by sides are a complete and utter waste of time and money. Especially all the fine London and Scottish built ones. They are worthless. You must take them to an RFD who will sell you a new Turkish or Italian over and under. He will take them off your hands for not a lot - saves you the hastle of disposal.

And with a modern gun you will have the pleasure of buying another one in a few years time when your current one breaks or goes out of fashion.

 

[Stimo444]

It’s what you use them for, sure I use a OU sporter for shooting a round of clays. But wouldn’t want to carry it all day in the field when my 90 year old Greener still has plenty of life left in it

 

[HistoricBore]

I've just collected today my 1976 Miroku side-by-side 12 bore. It locks up like a vault, takes 2 3/4" cartridges and when the time comes I can open up the full choke barrel to 1/2 for steel. All for £350 ...

HB

 

[Len the dog]

Absolutely worth it, a good quality side by side sidelock with a straight hand stock is an absolute joy to use.
And why would it be an unsafe option, just because lead may or may not be banned doesn’t stop a gun from working, it’s still the same gun regardless of what you put through it, as long as it’s no tighter than 1/2 choke, which most aren’t, then carry on as before and savour every shot.

 

[enfieldspares]

I think top end English "best" guns are now a poor investment in that the spectre of steel shot has affected values and, of course, the market demand for them anyway is falling here in the UK. Especially as somehow a 2 1/2" chamber makes them not flavour of the month. Which is daft. But also fact. That doesn't mean that they are not a good buy if you want to have one, keep it, use it, enjoy it. In fact in 2024 they are half the price the same gun would have been in 2004. With 2 1/2" cartridges loaded with lead shot it'll kill any game bird that ever flew. But after you've scratched that itch also don't expect to make a profit or even break even on what you paid. You likely won't unless steel shot goes away and even if it did it's still a shrinking market for buyers. So buy it to enjoy and take the pleasure. Don't buy it to somehow think of it as an investment.

 

[cjm1066]

The steel shot fear is affecting values, but that's likely to be a cyclic shift and values will rise again as steel shot becomes the normal cartridge.

So buy now.

There are some very stylish Turkish guns on the market at the moment, far nicer than the Baikals on old, will they last as long is another question.

 

[lochty]

My 1888 Holland and Holland doing what it was made to do.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Funny old world - my local gun shop has several “2nd division” English side-by-sides which can be bought for a fraction of what would have been happily paid 25 years ago - when I would have sold a kidney to get one. Quality Spanish guns are the same - yet the new ones are astronomical but as I understand it anything below half choke will handle steel without issue. The .243 rifle and copper saga has pretty much been and gone and again there was a significant negative impact on their sales - both new and second hand.
Sooo are we just victims of the rumour machine - if so where do these rumours begin?

 

[HonestJohn]

Guns, optics and cars, probably some of the worst possible things to invest in right now. But a good time to buy one for the Sunday drive or invite day shooting.

What we will see is all our old and vintage cars that can’t go anywhere as LEZbianism expands out with the cities, and old rifles and shotguns fall out of fashion due to lead bans - is they all end up being exported by a few clever folk to sit in massive collections in Texas or similar.

 

[Sellars]

Guns, optics and cars, probably some of the worst possible things to invest in right now. But a good time to buy one for the Sunday drive or invite day shooting.

What we will see is all our old and vintage cars that can’t go anywhere as LEZbianism expands out with the cities, and old rifles and shotguns fall out of fashion due to lead bans - is they all end up being exported by a few clever folk to sit in massive collections in Texas or similar.

Some old cars can go into LEZ's in Scotland. The only car in our family that can drive into any LEZ in Scotland, without attracting a penalty, is a 35 year old (diesel) land rover, newer cars that get a higher mpg and in theory are less polluting are prohibited.

 

[old 30-06]

I slightly dis-agree with some of the above comments. The vast majority of side by sides I have looked at were all choked "full" in the left hand barrel when checked with a choke gauge. Most were not English. From memory, when my father bought a Webley and Scott 700 new from Greenfields of Canterbury, it came from the factory in half and full choke.

 

[Sika98k]

I slightly dis-agree with some of the above comments. The vast majority of side by sides I have looked at were all choked "full" in the left hand barrel when checked with a choke gauge. Most were not English. From memory, when my father bought a Webley and Scott 700 new from Greenfields of Canterbury, it came from the factory in half and full choke.

Interchangeable chokes are a relatively new invention. Back in the day you could take choke out of a barrel but putting it back in was not, AFAIAA, possible. So shotguns came from the factory tightly choked and the purchaser could get a competent gunsmith let out the chokes to his preference.

 

[HistoricBore]

My 1946 Webley has 1/3 choke in the right barrel and full choke in the left. Remember that the old roll crimp cartridges threw more open patterns than the later star crimp we use today.

HB

 

[Dunwaters]

The price of S/S shotguns is nowhere near bottom, no one under 60 wants one and most of us over that age who have one will be putting them on the market in the next decade or so.
No one wants one except me, I positively LUST after a Dixon round action or a bar in the wood with decent timber and at least 21/2” chambers.
It’ll be used as God intended all game guns to be used, walking up over pointers.

 

[west_meon]

An 1896 Chas Osbourne 20 bore with Damascus barrels is still my go-to for a day with the pheasants, and for fun I also use a 28 bore S/S choked 1/8 and 1/8 which shoots just as well as the 20 bore, and is lighter to carry (for sale on this site, by the way). They are a joy to use, and a bargain to buy, but just not an investment. Seeing as I don't have the cabinet space (or sufficient knowledge) for investments that suits me fine! Buy what you are going to enjoy using!

Oddly enough, I actually went to the gun shop to buy an O/U due to the potential lead ban/steel shot issue. They were all shiny, flashy, expensive, all on prime display, and all lacked 'character'. The Chas was at the end of the rack, quietly minding its own business, and oozing class. It was also less than half the price of the cheapest O/U!

I kept trying to ignore it and concentrate on what I went in there for, but kept going back to it. I think the RFD spotted the dilemma, as he just smiled and shook his head, and said 'go with you gut! If you buy an O/U you will be back tomorrow to buy that old thing so you may as well leave with it now, and come back for the O/U if it doesn't suit.'

LSH, I went in for a new O/U, left with a 120 year old S/S, it did suit, and I never went back for the O/U!