Why shoot the foxes?

[jall55]

Theres no need.
Depending, on why you’re doing it.
If you’re controlling foxes or corvids to protect sensitive ground nesting bird populations, let them establish their territories and then take them out of your core area and the surroundings. You don’t need to get them all, get one of a pair of crows and the nest will fail. One bird is also unlikely to be able to hold a territory .
Targeted control measures will significantly reduce predation in your core area. The numbers of vermin will bounce back as the young of the year become independent and start to establish their own territories, typically July or August, by then your ground nesting whatevers should have fledged and be pretty much immune to predation.
A large proportion of this years vermin crop will die off from natural causes over the winter all on their own whether you shoot them or not, why make work for yourself? Wait until spring and cull the survivors and the breeders.
You’ll save yourself time money and ammunition.

If you’re controlling foxes and crows because you want to release poults or run free range poultry, that’s a different matter.
You are creating the problem yourself by putting dumb, easily predated protein out in the countryside.
You can absolutely guarantee that you will attract every critter with pretensions to be a predator onto your patch, and you will attract them in high numbers because of the concentrated protein source that you provide.
You do indeed need to shoot on sight for most of the year, but you also need to accept that the problem wouldn’t exist if you weren’t artificially pumping all that extra protein into the environment.
Stop injecting the excess protein into the environment and your predator populations will drop back to whatever level local resources can support.
You may also wish to concede that in this instance the only thing that you are protecting is a financial investment.

Very very very lucky Dunwater - look you in the eye and you would see i have no interest in shooting as anything related to finance - i like seeing many species on our land
Take crows -numbers have sky rocketed - boosted by many farming practices - If i may be so bold i would even suggest farmers almost have a duty to cull these as the crows survive die off from natural causes over winter aided by food to feed cattle particularly
We shot over 1200 last year
The same is true of rats

Foxes ---- you speak of territories - i shot over 100 in one field last year
Do you know that siblings / aunts / last years cubs will help raise cubs

 

[Dunwaters]

Very very very lucky Dunwater - look you in the eye and you would see i have no interest in shooting as anything related to finance - i like seeing many species on our land
Take crows -numbers have sky rocketed - boosted by many farming practices - If i may be so bold i would even suggest farmers almost have a duty to cull these as the crows survive die off from natural causes over winter aided by food to feed cattle particularly
We shot over 1200 last year
The same is true of rats

Foxes ---- you speak of territories - i shot over 100 in one field last year
Do you know that siblings / aunts / last years cubs will help raise cubs

Very true, you provide free food and whatever benefits by it will increase, I never said that there are no circumstances where lethal control measures are not the correct solution.
I said, and it seems to have touched a nerve, that lethal controls are not always effective or the most appropriate solution.
Yes, I do know that foxes will assist a breeding parent, so will magpies, what’s your point?
As for 100 foxes coming out of one field, there is clearly something not right, I’d suspect human intervention either by providing a food source or shipping them in.
Theres absolutely no way that that many foxes could scratch a living off a single field.

 

[jall55]

Very true, you provide free food and whatever benefits by it will increase, I never said that there are no circumstances where lethal control measures are not the correct solution.
I said, and it seems to have touched a nerve, that lethal controls are not always effective or the most appropriate solution.
Yes, I do know that foxes will assist a breeding parent, so will magpies, what’s your point?
As for 100 foxes coming out of one field, there is clearly something not right, I’d suspect human intervention either by providing a food source or shipping them in.
Theres absolutely no way that that many foxes could scratch a living off a single field.

No nerve at all Dunwater

100 off it last year
Circa 120 year before

This year so far - only 10
In the field - i have had 4 broods of ducklings on the small ponds i dug - thats a result !

Similar on a sheep farm - Had circa 60 off it - this year we may only see 1 a night if any - (we only go once a week/fortnight)
But the Curlew and skylark are nesting

Lethal control is the only option - if you want to protect the things that so few other people do

Thermal has shown there are far more predators out there in one evening than months with a lamp

 

[Dunwaters]

No nerve at all Dunwater

100 off it last year
Circa 120 year before

This year so far - only 10
In the field - i have had 4 broods of ducklings on the small ponds i dug - thats a result !

Similar on a sheep farm - Had circa 60 off it - this year we may only see 1 a night if any - (we only go once a week/fortnight)
But the Curlew and skylark are nesting

Lethal control is the only option - if you want to protect the things that so few other people do

Thermal has shown there are far more predators out there in one evening than months with a lamp

Me nerves have nothing to do with it, I keep them well tamped down.
You have your views, I have mine neither of us will change.
I can’t help wondering what brought that number of foxes into a single field.
What was the attraction?

 

[BenBhoy]

Got a call today from next door, they were baling and seen two foxes.... Do I wanna pop round tonight?? The question is - do I?? I've done over 50hrs this week & it's only Thursday!!

 

[jall55]

Got a call today from next door, they were baling and seen two foxes.... Do I wanna pop round tonight?? The question is - do I?? I've done over 50hrs this week & it's only Thursday!!

Course you do
Second wind

 

[jall55]

Me nerves have nothing to do with it, I keep them well tamped down.
You have your views, I have mine neither of us will change.
I can’t help wondering what brought that number of foxes into a single field.
What was the attraction?

They like the water and i honestly just think there are so many more foxes about than people realise
The habitat we have created does suit lots of animals too now

 

[Devon Stalker]

Of course, if you keep chickens or pheasants, you need to eliminate foxes.

However, on arable farmland where I manage the wildlife, we had got to the point where there is a beautiful harmony with rabbits and mice kept down to numbers that do minimal crop damage because there is a rich array of predators: stoats, foxes, both barn and tawny owls, as well as buzzards and other birds of prey. Deer numbers have been brought down low enough that the trees surrounding the fields and the plants in the margins are their food, rather than the crop, whilst still giving new deer each year for the freezer. The bucks are all great, as the rifle does the genetic selection. It has become a wild life reserve, where the crop is untouched and all the mammals we have in the UK are in a harmonic balance: nature at its best.

Then someone comes along, unauthorised, on a motorbike with number plate obscured, with rifle exposed on his back, dressed in black, complete with balaclava, and shoots the vixens. So her cubs will starve, and rabbits will increase. The tool keeps on doing it, usually Saturday nights.

What is it about foxes that drive people to takes risks like this? Any ideas on how to prevent it?

NB: Police have been out a few times, farmland is easy to escape from. Residents now call me if they see things going on, but they are not out in the middle of night. They find the remains of the foxes the next day or so. I do a patrol at night, which helps in my mind, but I then go back to bed.

Hi, I’d be interested to hear what your carrying capacity for each species is and the type of land. For comparison, as we are on a similar journey.

 

[BenBhoy]

Course you do
Second wind

Said I'll go Saturday night - beer & sofa nap tonight!!

 

[finnbear270]

Anyone got more wind than me to count up the shot foxes reports on "Out last night"?, I only got to page four and I was into the hundreds.

 

[Nickb]

View attachment 368571

Said I'll go Saturday night - beer & sofa nap tonight!!

I think you need a manicure sweetheart ❤

 

[jall55]

Anyone got more wind than me to count up the shot foxes reports on "Out last night"?, I only got to page four and I was into the hundreds.

Finn PW has a pinned page that people add numbers too each time they shoot one
Maybe look at that ?

But leave this set of pages for the write ups and discussion ?

 

[finnbear270]

Finn PW has a pinned page that people add numbers too each time they shoot one
Maybe look at that ?

But leave this set of pages for the write ups and discussion ?

So none of your replies have any mention of numbers?, I was following the underlying thread relating to how many are shot and the resulting improvement in other stuff like ground nesting birds and or Hedgehogs.
jall55 said:


It would make no sense though would it because anyone properly culling foxes - would cull more as any increase happened - and if they are doing the job right the foxes cant breed as fast as one can cull them - simple really
I struggle to find any coherent reason to visit such a forum as PW.

 

[jall55]

So none of your replies have any mention of numbers?, I was following the underlying thread relating to how many are shot and the resulting improvement in other stuff like ground nesting birds and or Hedgehogs.
jall55 said:


It would make no sense though would it because anyone properly culling foxes - would cull more as any increase happened - and if they are doing the job right the foxes cant breed as fast as one can cull them - simple really
I struggle to find any coherent reason to visit such a forum as PW.

I dont think they do - i tend to put mine on "Pretend keeper"

Fair enough re PW - but it keeps its simple

 

[AlexD]

Hi, I’d be interested to hear what your carrying capacity for each species is and the type of land. For comparison, as we are on a similar journey.

The land managed by minimum intervention on foxes here is 1000 acres and 2200 acres: the two areas adjoin. It is a roughly rectangular area with the long north edge bounded by houses (edge of Edinburgh). The land is one third natural mixed deciduous woodland, rest arable and pasture for horses. Crops are broad beans, barley, wheat, the dreaded rape seed oil, hay, and the woodland.

There is roughly one fox per 100 acres on the arable land: figures for woodland are harder to be certain of but are similar based on observation with thermals, NV etc. There are 3 deer per 400 acres, which was originally 12 per 400 acres, except for the woodland where there are higher numbers for paid stalking. Several barn owl pairs, tawny owls and very many smaller owls. Buzzards and sparrow hawks are the main bird of prey, though there are several other species in just single pairs. A small river running through the middle has kingfishers and otters, ducks in side ponds and geese - surprisingly very close to the foxes, nesting on the bank without being raided. Badgers - far too many, hard to get figures, but there are 8 setts, each set covering 100 yards from end to end. There are hares in reasonable abundance, rabbits are lowish numbers apart from the two fields where people keep shooting foxes, so I shoot rabbits in those two fields only. Mice numbers are low.

On what is shot:
Foxes are not being shot, other than by unauthorised people turning up at night.
Deer are managed tightly on the 1000 acres to give the above 3 per 400 acres, but are in much higher numbers for paid stalks on the 2000 acres.
Grey squirrels, shot on sight. Over 2000 a year were taken for the past few years. Largely free of greys this year, other than odd families that turn up. Lots of small birds now.
Wood pigeons, I shoot as many as possible though don't wait for them in a hide: using a .17 HMR once they are on the ground allows them to be dropped far beyond shotgun distances, and prevents them forming huge flocks that existed previously. Am using shotguns on pigeons also, but kill rate is not great as distance is their height & distance is the problem.

 

[Nickb]

How does shooting a pigeon with HMR prevent huge flocks ?

 

[jall55]

How does shooting a pigeon with HMR prevent huge flocks ?

I wasnt going to get involved hahahahah

 

[sako751sg]

How does shooting a pigeon with HMR prevent huge flocks ?

Absolutely comical.
That's the Internet winner for today.

 

[AlexD]

How does shooting a pigeon with HMR prevent huge flocks ?

Amazing how many you can shoot because you can cover half the field from one position, and the sounds gets them away.

With a shotgun I can only cover 30 yards, 50 if they face me. I have a couple of shot guns with me also when the pigeons come after drilling, but the kill rate is much lower and those across the other side of the field ignore it.

 

[Tim.243]

Amazing how many you can shoot because you can cover half the field from one position, and the sounds gets them away.

With a shotgun you can only cover 30 yards. I have a couple of shot guns with me also when the pigeons come after drilling, but the kill rate is much lower and those across the other side of the field ignore it.