Smellydog
Well-Known Member
So if I get rats in the house I should welcome them?
Why shoot the foxes?
- Thread starter AlexD
- Start date
I assume that the cave dwellers too, in paleontologic times, threw the odd rock after rats raiding his cave for food or shelter. I dont see any reasons for changing that pattern of behavior, expect that rocks may be hard on the furniture. We have better methods now...
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Im sticking to rocks, the .410 made a right mess....!
Devon Stalker
Well-Known Member
Really useful info, thank you!
A
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
For more than five years I “managed” the foxes on an important to migratory species RSPB reserve - very much on a “local arrangement” basis i.e. only the warden who had approached me knew. The first visit was my usual recce and I saw 17 foxes crossing a single track to get into the reserve. Next visit I shot 13 and over the years must have shot maybe a hundred - all destined for a bird dinner. For years not a single chick had made it to adulthood until Mr WMR and latterly Miss Triple Deuce came calling - the difference was very plain to see. Any visiting foxes were shot on an appointment basis from the comfort of one of the pretty luxurious “hides”. However because of a substantial building project beside the reserve I decided my after hours control had to stop. The foxes returned….
In 2021, on one Forest area important for breeding curlew, the new wildlife manager responsible for the beat carried out intensive fox and carrion crow control during the nesting season, and six curlew chicks fledged from his beat alone: so more than twice the number of chicks that fledged from the entire New Forest area in 2020.
Then someone from HQ across the water in recognising the importance of this site decided to fence the entire reserve to make it fox-proof; first effort cost £130k - yep £130,000 but wasn’t dug in to the ground so a further £40k was spent the following year to remedy this. Sadly the fence was only 4 feet high so surprise, surprise, as I had warned the fox predation continued - it now has a twin strand electric fence atop it at God only knows what cost on top of the utterly wasted £170k and the fox problem was resolved except contrary to my advice they didn’t drive the reed beds and locked in two foxes which had a never-ending supply of duck and wader chicks and adults as the reserve core is a four or five acre lagoon which is only a few inches deep - thevfoxes didn’t even get their belly wet nabbing sleeping birds. Miss TD sorted that out in one final visit.
Soooo the RSPB solution was to throw north of £200k at the predator problem instead of acknowledging and accepting the efficacy of a more “targeted” solution provided FOC by old FB. The wider point and more germain to this thread is pretty simple - proper predator control worked!
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Idyllist types FB, I need a head oop arse emoji...!For more than five years I “managed” the foxes on an important to migratory species RSPB reserve - very much on a “local arrangement” basis i.e. only the warden who had approached me knew. The first visit was my usual recce and I saw 17 foxes crossing a single track to get into the reserve. Next visit I shot 13 and over the years must have shot maybe a hundred - all destined for a bird dinner. For years not a single chick had made it to adulthood until Mr WMR and latterly Miss Triple Deuce came calling - the difference was very plain to see. Any visiting foxes were shot on an appointment basis from the comfort of one of the pretty luxurious “hides”. However because of a substantial building project beside the reserve I decided my after hours control had to stop. The foxes returned….
Then someone from HQ across the water in recognising the importance of this site decided to fence the entire reserve to make it fox-proof; first effort cost £130k - yep £130,000 but wasn’t dug in to the ground so a further £40k was spent the following year to remedy this. Sadly the fence was only 4 feet high so surprise, surprise, as I had warned the fox predation continued - it now has a twin strand electric fence atop it at God only knows what cost on top of the utterly wasted £170k and the fox problem was resolved except contrary to my advice they didn’t drive the reed beds and locked in two foxes which had a never-ending supply of duck and wader chicks and adults as the reserve core is a four or five acre lagoon which is only a few inches deep - thevfoxes didn’t even get their belly wet nabbing sleeping birds. Miss TD sorted that out in one final visit.
Soooo the RSPB solution was to throw north of £200k at the predator problem instead of acknowledging and accepting the efficacy of a more “targeted” solution provided FOC by old FB. The wider point and more germain to this thread is pretty simple - proper predator control worked!
Overlay
Well-Known Member
For more than five years I “managed” the foxes on an important to migratory species RSPB reserve - very much on a “local arrangement” basis i.e. only the warden who had approached me knew. The first visit was my usual recce and I saw 17 foxes crossing a single track to get into the reserve. Next visit I shot 13 and over the years must have shot maybe a hundred - all destined for a bird dinner. For years not a single chick had made it to adulthood until Mr WMR and latterly Miss Triple Deuce came calling - the difference was very plain to see. Any visiting foxes were shot on an appointment basis from the comfort of one of the pretty luxurious “hides”. However because of a substantial building project beside the reserve I decided my after hours control had to stop. The foxes returned….
Then someone from HQ across the water in recognising the importance of this site decided to fence the entire reserve to make it fox-proof; first effort cost £130k - yep £130,000 but wasn’t dug in to the ground so a further £40k was spent the following year to remedy this. Sadly the fence was only 4 feet high so surprise, surprise, as I had warned the fox predation continued - it now has a twin strand electric fence atop it at God only knows what cost on top of the utterly wasted £170k and the fox problem was resolved except contrary to my advice they didn’t drive the reed beds and locked in two foxes which had a never-ending supply of duck and wader chicks and adults as the reserve core is a four or five acre lagoon which is only a few inches deep - thevfoxes didn’t even get their belly wet nabbing sleeping birds. Miss TD sorted that out in one final visit.
Soooo the RSPB solution was to throw north of £200k at the predator problem instead of acknowledging and accepting the efficacy of a more “targeted” solution provided FOC by old FB. The wider point and more germain to this thread is pretty simple - proper predator control worked!
Unfortunately what proofing work you witnessed has been mirrored many times around RSPB sites including the use of a lot of money I guess from kind hearted birdwatchers
RSPB have a wealth of advisors who unfortunately know very little fox /predator proofing and they will keep throwing money at it, and have in the past always try and keep all things in house to escape ridicule on any decisions it’s viewed by the converted
On the good side any fence will help but some of the fencing that have had to a re-design were little more than posh stock fencing but just a tighter mesh size and over engineered posts they certainly didn’t scrimp on quality - grade A timber and Mesh all the way. - cant fault them on the quality
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Yep - wonderful fences but utterly useless for their intended purpose.Unfortunately what proofing work you witnessed has been mirrored many times around RSPB sites including the use of a lot of money I guess from kind hearted birdwatchers
RSPB have a wealth of advisors who unfortunately know very little fox /predator proofing and they will keep throwing money at it, and have in the past always try and keep all things in house to escape ridicule on any decisions it’s viewed by the converted
On the good side any fence will help but some of the fencing that have had to a re-design were little more than posh stock fencing but just a tighter mesh size and over engineered posts they certainly didn’t scrimp on quality - grade A timber and Mesh all the way. - cant fault them on the quality
I just wonder if all those little rich widows understand where their money really goes…
I'd forgotten about this thread, I'd support pretty much all VSS has said on lamb mortality. Most of it is preventable, good years things go well, bad years they don'tThat's the kind of challenge I relish!
Often, in situations where there's a sudden spike in fox predation, analysing the data reveals that in that particular year the flock experienced a higher than normal proportion of low birthweight lambs.
Obviously not all farmers record that data, but to be honest if they don't measure it they can't mend it, and any attempt to do so is merely ****ing in the wind.
Low birthweights might be caused by a numbed of things. For example, poor ewe nutrition, or disease (eg, toxoplasmosis. Toxo is very common, and the majority of sheep will become infected with it at some point in their lives. Where there's a low level persistent infection in flock it'll often pass unnoticed, but when a new infection occurs in a previously naive flock the effects in that year can be devastating. If infected in early pregnancy, ewes will repeat to the ram and either lamb very late or be barren. When infection occurs in mid pregnancy, ewes will abort. But when it occurs in late pregnancy ewes will produce live lambs with low birth weights and low vigour. Perfect fox food! In subsequent years, ewes are immune, so the problem appears to have gone away, and predation drops accordingly. Vaccinating a flock against toxo is pretty much guaranteed to reduce the number of lambs predated).
You mention that it is a small flock, and they have their own set of problems. Age structure is one example: In smallholders flocks it is quite common for older ewes not to have been culled when they should have been, for "sentimental reasons", so insufficient young sheep are retained each year to replace them, and the age profile of the flock advances year on year. It is well documented that there comes a point in a ewe's life when her ability to rear a lamb and produce quality colostrum declines sharply, again resulting in potential "fox bait" lambs. When an unnaturally high proportion of the flock reaches that age category all at the same time you'll see a correspondingly high level of lamb mortality in that particular year, leading to higher than normal predation.
So, there's just a few examples of what might have caused the situation you witnessed, all of which are solved without shooting any foxes. You shot the fox after the event, so didn't prevent the 17 deaths. Being aware of, and adressing issues such as those I've outlined above (or others. These are just examples) would have done.
Saving him the cost of a call-out fee
Rats you should worry, I moved into a cottage which had been timbered and dry lined inside the stone. The previous keeper's parting shots had been to release his kid's pet hamsters some weeks before and the bas....s were in the walls.
What fun ( not) we had trapping the sods. Last resort was my then Mrs a rather good pistol shot sitting in kitchen chair shooting some pretty scabby horrible hamsters with a Webley single shot .22 target pistol and shorts.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
My kind of woman, awesome
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Was she wearing shorts because of the hot weather?
I'll answer both in one. She was mine kind as well until she started sharing her over generous and very friendly nympho virtues with another bloke.
No a basque, suspenders and stockings as normal.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
May I ask... was she a redhead
No ash blonde, but hard to keep up with, everyman's dream for 16 years.May I ask... was she a redhead
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Sorry it went sour.No ash blonde, but hard to keep up with, everyman's dream for 16 years.
To be honest, I'm not, now in my dotage I have one that suits me perfectly and makes me thoroughly content in every way. They always say "Third time lucky".
These organisations need a crisis to fundraise and stay relevant to their supporters. A cost effective solution and successful outcome doesn’t bring the big donations in!For more than five years I “managed” the foxes on an important to migratory species RSPB reserve - very much on a “local arrangement” basis i.e. only the warden who had approached me knew. The first visit was my usual recce and I saw 17 foxes crossing a single track to get into the reserve. Next visit I shot 13 and over the years must have shot maybe a hundred - all destined for a bird dinner. For years not a single chick had made it to adulthood until Mr WMR and latterly Miss Triple Deuce came calling - the difference was very plain to see. Any visiting foxes were shot on an appointment basis from the comfort of one of the pretty luxurious “hides”. However because of a substantial building project beside the reserve I decided my after hours control had to stop. The foxes returned….
Then someone from HQ across the water in recognising the importance of this site decided to fence the entire reserve to make it fox-proof; first effort cost £130k - yep £130,000 but wasn’t dug in to the ground so a further £40k was spent the following year to remedy this. Sadly the fence was only 4 feet high so surprise, surprise, as I had warned the fox predation continued - it now has a twin strand electric fence atop it at God only knows what cost on top of the utterly wasted £170k and the fox problem was resolved except contrary to my advice they didn’t drive the reed beds and locked in two foxes which had a never-ending supply of duck and wader chicks and adults as the reserve core is a four or five acre lagoon which is only a few inches deep - thevfoxes didn’t even get their belly wet nabbing sleeping birds. Miss TD sorted that out in one final visit.
Soooo the RSPB solution was to throw north of £200k at the predator problem instead of acknowledging and accepting the efficacy of a more “targeted” solution provided FOC by old FB. The wider point and more germain to this thread is pretty simple - proper predator control worked!
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