dsc2 portfolio charges

[RTA]

Paul can you tell me as a knowledgeable person in the deer industry and also in the education industry why a DMQ lev 2 Candidate needs to shoot 3 deer on three separate stalks ?.
May i also say Paul your post is a bit condescending and you are biased being one of the chaps that make a lot of money from the system.

I feel that one stalk is enough to prove some ones ability and two would be more than enough. Bitch over!

 

[DL]

I think that a candidates portfolio would look a mess if for the ICRs for the three stalks, there were ten AW's writing up different elements. The assessor/IV would be pulling their hair out.

Also, as the original poster mentioned, some AW's are charging for their time, so that would cost a few pounds if they were all at it.

Better in my mind to wait for the right day, and get the whole ICR signed off by the same witness.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Paul can you tell me as a knowledgeable person in the deer industry and also in the education industry why a DMQ lev 2 Candidate needs to shoot 3 deer on three separate stalks ?.
May i also say Paul your post is a bit condescending and you are biased being one of the chaps that make a lot of money from the system.

I feel that one stalk is enough to prove some ones ability and two would be more than enough. Bitch over!

Your funny, I don't charge anything but if a stalker gives me a thankyou in hand that's cool so I'm no big money maker at this and it's not my job. For a level 2 qualification the practical time on ground put in to merit this level is fair at three stalks which can be done in a day. One stalk, cull and extraction is simply not enough to allow for a greater exploration of candidate ability especially if a guy walks up a hedge and connects 5 minutes after getting out of the pickup, reverses up to collect and drives the two minutes back to the chiller where he has all the facilities to dress out the beast. Sure PC questions can ask him or her what they would do in a given situation but seeing a candidate really work hard for a cull and work cleanly often in poor conditions really makes it easy to sign off a stalker. It's not called the Deer Killing Certificate.

Why do you do a driving test out on the roads and not in a car park and why for as long as you do?

You have to allow for candidates to proove themselves and while the same AW can sign off the 3 stalks of the new portfolio it is more valued and generally a stronger pf when 2 or 3 AW's are used. This can't happen unless you have a stalker put some time in with an AW or two and in more than with a single cull. Having said that there are no gold stars in this and pass is as good as it gets.

 

[laphroaig]

Sorry but the system requires that both the candidate and witness act in a way that unholds the principals of it. This is no different to any other assessment based qualification where people try and cheat casting doubt on it. Honestly, having worked in secondary and further eduction for some time, I can say that in terms of a deer related qualification it is fine the way it is and those that try and cast doubt on the system generally don't know what they are talking about.

Deer stalking is not a fixed state of practice throughout the uk and so within that you have a great deal of variation between recretional and pro stalkers many of which are AW's and witness candidates. It is up to the candidate to follow DMQ guidance and ensure that the are happy with the financial arrangements and practical requirements prior to undertaking witnessed stalks. If a candidate turns up having not read the guidance notes or read up on the requirements to complete and ICR, how can that be the fault of the system.

If you don't like the system then either provide diplomatic suggestions for improvement or stop bitching about it and have nothing to do with it.

I will second that comment.
Cheers
A

 

[RTA]

Paul you can do three stalks in a day on Dave Strettons Deer Farm and there were loads that passed this way. With regards your comment on driving .

Why do you do a driving test out on the roads and not in a car park and why for as long as you do?

Now that really shows you are not in touch with reality. The driving test lasts forty minutes. I also do not think any one was suggesting that the lev 2 was not done out in the field . The question was do you really think it is necessary to stalk three deer separately with an AW. I dont think it is but thats just my opinion.

 

[willie_gunn]

I feel that one stalk is enough to prove some ones ability and two would be more than enough. Bitch over!

From DMQ's website:

DSC2 is a practically based qualification which enables candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and competence in legally, safely and humanely culling deer and dealing with carcasses hygienically.

One stalk could be a fluke, so three is a good number as it allows candidates to demonstrate both competency and consistency. The candidate has three years to complete DSC2, so an average of one stalk a year doesn't seem too onerous.

May i also say Paul your post is a bit condescending and you are biased being one of the chaps that make a lot of money from the system.

It may have been condescending, but at least it wasn't downright insulting! According to the published fee schedule for where I stalk the charge is £10 per witnessed stalk on top of normal stalking fees - that hardly sounds like a recipe to make a lot of money does it? All the AW's I know offer the sevice because they want to put something back into stalking. Candidates can have their ICR's witnessed by any number of AW's, so if someone feels they are being over-charged they only have to refer to the list and send a couple of emails or make a couple of phone calls.

willie_gunn

 

[laphroaig]

Paul you can do three stalks in a day on Dave Strettons Deer Farm and there were loads that passed this way. With regards your comment on driving .

Why do you do a driving test out on the roads and not in a car park and why for as long as you do?

Now that really shows you are not in touch with reality. The driving test lasts forty minutes. I also do not think any one was suggesting that the lev 2 was not done out in the field . The question was do you really think it is necessary to stalk three deer separately with an AW. I dont think it is but thats just my opinion.

If you have such proof of that I suggest you make your evidence available to DMQ and not make such allegations here.

Cheers
A

 

[RTA]

Or ?

 

[RTA]

There were quite a few that did there Lev 2 at Daves place a friend of mine did his there. Willie gun that is very good of you to help all these pour chaps through the DSC process cheaply. but do you think that all the paid days that have been done would have been done had DMQ2 not been in place i don't think so . One might be a fluke so why not two or ten. What has consistency got to do with it. I passed my chain saw assessment could have been a fluke but i didn't need to do it three time.s. If the candidate is not up to the task or the stalk did not cover all the pc,s necessary then the candidate will need to to those sections again. It should never be a fluke. But still no need for three and all the costs that it brings the candidate.
Just an opinion but i do feel strongly about it.

 

[willie_gunn]

Willie gun that is very good of you to help all these pour chaps through the DSC process cheaply. but do you think that all the paid days that have been done would have been done had DMQ2 not been in place i don't think so .

Does this look familiar:

It should be free excepting expenses or if you don't have your own ground or deer to go at then all you should need to know is how much the person is charging for a morning/days stalking.

It's one of your own posts a couple of pages ago. It's exactly the service we offer.

Consistency.

willie_gunn

 

[Paul at Fechan]

sorry mate, you're not with it and obviously have a grudge to bear with DMQ, what experience do you have that makes you better that all the L2's who are proud to have done it, and the AW's and assessors many of which give up much of their free time to help young and novice stalkers get the right start in their deer stalking careers?

Like my comment about the driving test, just because you can do a three point turn and a theory test doesn't make you a driver who will automatically pass. You have to demonstate those skills in a practical environment and in such a way that shows you are ready for the challenges ahead or don't you get that?

What's your real problem? cost, number of stalks, AW's have to witness, DMQ is a BASC scam, what? Do you have your DMQ levels yet or is that the problem?

 

[laphroaig]

Or ?

I could always book some driving lessons with you

 

[widows son]

Obviously the guy you have engaged isnt doing his job as per the rules. Writing up a portfolio after carrying out 3 succesful stalks if other outings have been witnessed and not wriiten up at the time , isnt acceptable.why in it no acceptable ,Ive been a AW for a long while,having done loads of portfolios i only ever done one in the field and had to ask DMQ for a new portfolio, it was a mess i never take them out the vehicle and where i can I'll do all the write up at home and type the narrative and stick it in .Theres been no complaints from anyone so far.

The rules are quite clear all outings have to be written up in the portfolio questions asked and answered and recorded ,along with observations of competency, whilst carrying out the modules, this record shows to the external verifyer the full history of competence of the candidate. No the narrative shows the story not the questions
If I was you I would make a formal complaint, to many AW think they can administer the system the way they want to run it . Not so if the qualification or rather achievement is to mean any creedance then all the modules should be carried out correctly as DMQ advise.Are you an AW ???? or would you like to be one it is far from fun

Unfortunately your incorrect and I suggest that if you intend to continue in writing up and acting as a DMQ AW then the modules are completed as and when a candidate is engaged at the end of the day after referal to your field notes , Invairably a stalk is not succesful and there are other issues in the module that have to be addressed and witnessed and not complete on the day. A little thing called a note book

He then can complete the remaining part of the unfinished module later , possibly with some other AW If so required but it doesn't show the same conditions weather ground ETC the three stalks can be done from a high seat if the person is disabled or has other problems that stop a stalk taking place .

The System is fine RTA its those who try to administer it in a manner that is incorrect that can create problems.
A candidate may have many AWs making out his portfolio, and each stage of the modules has to be signed off accordingly on the day it was carried out to show a true account. Maybe you should check the proceedure with your Overseeing registered Assesor Mr T.
Whether you like it or not the rules are the rules if you dont like them and wish to change the system then make representation to the governing body at DMQ in the mean time I suggest we all abide by the criteria set.

Regards
Alan

If you have such proof of that I suggest you make your evidence available to DMQ and not make such allegations here.

Cheers
A

My my someone knickers are in a twist, had a bad experience or two or three or more, the system is workable but also has its flaws, but it could be done with one beast everyone learns at there own pace pushing a portfolio up there nose an saying you must is mince,Ive done these for professional hill stalkers that just shake theres head at some of the questions with answers like (Aye OK in the real world) just how many people tie off anything very few there plenty of best practises which people work in line with but also work to either side of as well, it doesn't mean its wrong or it illegal or dangerous it is just another way of completing the job in hand .

Theres no requirement to take anything into the field, as long as the stalker can answer the required questions these questions can be answered again at the vehicle, or at the accommodation, as long as there is some way of recording the answer during the stalk, IE a aide memoir of sorts or a note book Dictaphone, what ever Ive worked with Mr T as you call him, on various occasions doing AW stalks and have never seen him out in the field with a portfolio yet,like myself he doesn't like to see them looking like kids paper mashy or a chicken that has run across a ink pad and over the paper .

 

[laphroaig]

My my Bob

As I previously stated each module should be filled in on each outing after consulting with your field notes.
( I did say that didnt I!!!!!) I think I did anyway.


You imply that its ok to fill in a portfolio at a later date after consulting your note book.

Tell me Bob what would happen to that information and in respect to the candidates portfolio if you happened to be killed or die, an outing that he had paid for not as it would make any difference to your goodself as you would be expired but the candidate would not be in a position to show his evidence in his portfolio of his competence.

It is imperative that its recorded in a proper manner on the portfolio after each outing irrespective of the module being complete I accept in an ideal world if the module could be filled in all in one outing that would be most beneficial to all concerned but in the real world that does not happen and such evidence is presented in parts as the rules indicate by DMQ . Such note books get destroyed and lost but if its recorded on the portfolio after each outing , the onus as to its safe keeping then rests soley with the candidate and not the AW.

Have a good Christmas by the way

A

 

[jcampbellsmith]

....You imply that its ok to fill in a portfolio at a later date after consulting your note book....

Allan. A quick question, where in the currently issued guidance notes does it say you cannot do this? Which page and which document? Regards JCS

 

[laphroaig]

Page 5 and page 9 Cumalative Evidence page 10 handing back the portfolio after the outing OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOppppppppppppps
http://www.dmq.org.uk/downloads/Approved Witness Handbook.pdf

 

[Blue400]

+3

 

[widows son]

Page 5 and page 9 Cumalative Evidence page 10 handing back the portfolio after the outing OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOppppppppppppps
http://www.dmq.org.uk/downloads/Approved Witness Handbook.pdf

Page 10 it does say. Something different in completing a portfolio ,"script" ideally ,it says not it must be filled in as you imply ,this will be for things such as ,the wet days we have ,to avoid a portfolio being destroyed .

I can only say become a AW and enjoy the fun that doesn't come along with it .

 

[jcampbellsmith]

laphroaig - Bob is spot on, there are (at least) two sentences to read on page 10:

http://www.dmq.org.uk/downloads/Approved Witness Handbook.pdf

Completing a portfolio
Following a witnessed outing a portfolio should ideally be completed and returned to the candidate to take away with them. If that is not possible because of circumstances at the time, the portfolio must be completed and returned to the candidate without undue delay.

Regards JCS

 

[widows son]

Aye captain there's smoke coming from the engine and were going down fast ,lol