UK use of dangerous game cartidges

[Spear Chucker]

Isn't it totally ridiculous this system we have over here, if you licence the man to have a certificate
what does it it matter how many guns you have, but instead they will insist on having each
firearm licenced on your ticket.
In Germany you licence the applicant not the guns as they are concerned about the character of the applicant.
Once you have passed your shooting test you can have what you like (I believe that is so).
At the end of the day you can use a knitting needle as a weapon.

A long time ago (in the days when policemen were allowed a sense of humour and were usually sensible) my FEO asked me how my marriage was when doing a renewal interview. I told him to ask the wife, adding that if I was angry enough to want to kill the wife, I would use the first thing that came to hand...shovel, brick, whatever I found; noting that it was far more likely that she would want to kill me, as I am a royal pain in the arris.. I was hardly likely to rush into the house, grab the gun, rush to another part of the house, grab the bolt then rush to another part of the house for the ammo. Luckily he saw the joke, but the point you make is accurate. A crank can be dangerous with a teaspoon.

 

[Spear Chucker]

Interestingly I was told by my FEO, an all-round-good-egg who shoots and also has a brain, that my renewal caused a bit of a flutter in the firearms dept. as I use a .450 Marlin. Apparently his colleagues were telling him that this had to be "Export license only". They only looked at the calibre seemingly and had not considered what the round actually does. Once he explained it, they calmed down, but I am grateful he was doing the renewal, not one of his colleagues.

It is surprising how ill informed people in authority can be. I was in a gun bus with the then Minister of Defence who was telling me very earnestly that he was supporting the proposed ban on privately owned .50cal rifles. "I'm not having a rifle in private ownership that can punch a hole straight through the side of the prime minister's armoured motor car"
He seemed unimpressed when I told him he'd better ban shotguns then, including the one between his knees, as a 12b with a home-made sabot/solid slug would be able to do that very easily, and if an FAC semi-auto with 7 slugs, would be a far more formidable tool in the wrong hands than a bolt action rifle that weighed @ 30lb, was a minimum of 1.1m long and which the user had to work the bolt for every shot. He poo-pooed me and told me I didn't know what i was talking about...I told him to ask his personal protection officer in the car behind. He did. Seeing the PPO nodding his head during the conversation I guessed that he saw my point.

 

[Dickie]

Interestingly I was told by my FEO, an all-round-good-egg who shoots and also has a brain, that my renewal caused a bit of a flutter in the firearms dept. as I use a .450 Marlin. Apparently his colleagues were telling him that this had to be "Export license only". They only looked at the calibre seemingly and had not considered what the round actually does. Once he explained it, they calmed down, but I am grateful he was doing the renewal, not one of his colleagues.

It is surprising how ill informed people in authority can be. I was in a gun bus with the then Minister of Defence who was telling me very earnestly that he was supporting the proposed ban on privately owned .50cal rifles. "I'm not having a rifle in private ownership that can punch a hole straight through the side of the prime minister's armoured motor car"
He seemed unimpressed when I told him he'd better ban shotguns then, including the one between his knees, as a 12b with a home-made sabot/solid slug would be able to do that very easily, and if an FAC semi-auto with 7 slugs, would be a far more formidable tool in the wrong hands than a bolt action rifle that weighed @ 30lb, was a minimum of 1.1m long and which the user had to work the bolt for every shot. He poo-pooed me and told me I didn't know what i was talking about...I told him to ask his personal protection officer in the car behind. He did. Seeing the PPO nodding his head during the conversation I guessed that he saw my point.

The thing is they're not there for their knowledge and rely on civil servants for advice.

 

[Spear Chucker]

The thing is they're not there for their knowledge and rely on civil servants for advice.

Agreed...although the tone of his point was that he was very much in command of the facts, which for a short while, he clearly was not -on this occasion.

 

[angusb1]

Agreed...although the tone of his point was that he was very much in command of the facts, which for a short while, he clearly was not -on this occasion.

Part of the problem with most politicians is if they didn't think they were right all the time they wouldn't have even applied for a job as one.

 

[Pedro]

Ignorance by firearms licencing staff is very annoying, it seems. When looking at calibres, the bigger the number, the more reasons they give for not giving you it, whether based in fact or not.

The fact that, in reality any rifle, even lowly rimfires can be deadly at pretty long ranges seems to pass them by. If you are safe to have a .17hmr, a .243 or a .308 or any other of the usual calibres it's hard to think of a valid reason not to have other calibres because the bullet is a bit wider or longer. Given good reason, of course.

Anyway, in effect sending you abroad with an elephant gun without authority to have any practice whatsoever before you go seems completely nuts to me and smacks of passing the buck.

 

[Dickie]

Agreed...although the tone of his point was that he was very much in command of the facts, which for a short while, he clearly was not -on this occasion.

The tone of the facts someone had incorrectly briefed him as always with the bias or incorrectly informed beliefs they hold

 

[Eddie P]

The thing is they're not there for their knowledge and rely on civil servants for advice.

Who aren't always as knowledgeable as they think either!

 

[British Shooting Services]

I have a .458 on AOLQ and have had some very interesting conversations with different licensing authorities regarding clients using large calibres over land. When I've asked them for a copy of the relevant section of the firearms act that sets an upper limit, astonishingly they can never find it, because under UK firearms legislation/ deer legislation, there is no "upper limit", only minimum calibres.

Anyone who has conditions changed by the police can appeal against the change, just the same as a refusal to grant / renew / vary or the revocation of a Firearms Certificate. The law is quite clear regarding conditions added to an FAC, they must be kept to a bare minimum and must not be unjustly restrictive or onerous. A Chief Officer (in reality, most likely the FEO) can not add "just any" condition.

 

[StephenJD]

Following with interest as I am about to engage with my FEO prior to submitting a variation for a .375 H&H that I plan to accompany with “good reason” both in Africa and the UK.

 

[Selous]

Following with interest as I am about to engage with my FEO prior to submitting a variation for a .375 H&H that I plan to accompany with “good reason” both in Africa and the UK.

keep us posted of progress. If you can document a booked trip then you should have no problem

 

[Dave_45]

Tickled me a bit this , a chap used a 375 on a sika stag during the rut , maybe two years ago now.

Hit fair and square in the chest.

Thing took off like it was after the last parking space in Sainsbury’s on Christmas Eve.

 

[Namman]

Tickled me a bit this , a chap used a 375 on a sika stag during the rut , maybe two years ago now.

Hit fair and square in the chest.

Thing took off like it was after the last parking space in Sainsbury’s on Christmas Eve.

An experienced stalker will have seen ths with all calibres.
And your point is ?

 

[Dave_45]

An experienced stalker will have seen ths with all calibres.
And your point is ?

I was fairly clear with my opening line.

Try reading it again.

 

[angusb1]

Tickled me a bit this , a chap used a 375 on a sika stag during the rut , maybe two years ago now.

Hit fair and square in the chest.

Thing took off like it was after the last parking space in Sainsbury’s on Christmas Eve.

I guess bullet construction is everything in this particular case

 

[njc110381]

Well after the usual back and forth, we have reached an acceptable (pointless, but acceptable) compromise.

After my initial reply to their decision, I was threatened with having a note of being passive aggressive put on my file. That's fine, I have a copy of the email and I personally think he's being a wet fanny about it. I think the word he was looking for was "assertive", but he was being dramatic. He didn't like it that I didn't kneel before him and kiss his boots. He should know better than to expect that, it's not going to happen.

During his little tantrum my email was forwarded to his superior, who agreed with me. The pointless but acceptable bit is that they didn't want to issue AOLQ, just deer and boar. That's fine really, I had no intention of taking it bunny bashing.

Don't back down until you find yourself in the position you need to be in. They uphold the law, they don't make it.

 

[Eddie P]

Well after the usual back and forth, we have reached an acceptable (pointless, but acceptable) compromise.

After my initial reply to their decision, I was threatened with having a note of being passive aggressive put on my file. That's fine, I have a copy of the email and I personally think he's being a wet fanny about it. I think the word he was looking for was "assertive", but he was being dramatic. He didn't like it that I didn't kneel before him and kiss his boots. He should know better than to expect that, it's not going to happen.

During his little tantrum my email was forwarded to his superior, who agreed with me. The pointless but acceptable bit is that they didn't want to issue AOLQ, just deer and boar. That's fine really, I had no intention of taking it bunny bashing.

Don't back down until you find yourself in the position you need to be in. They uphold the law, they don't make it.

Was the threat in writing?

 

[njc110381]

Was the threat in writing?

Yes. This was possibly the point where his superior realised he'd compromised his position.

 

[Eddie P]

Yes. This was possibly the point where his superior realised he'd compromised his position.

It amazes me what some people are prepared to put on record.

 

[Stalker62]

Was the threat in writing?

Yes.

@njc110381

Then you must immediately have it framed in one of these, and hung in the down stairs toilet.







That way, if ever you run out of these...



...you know the rest...