Deer Management Plans - cull figures and high numbers

[Dorset Guy]

Evening all,
I have friends in the South East riddled with fallow on their farms and are going about getting impact assessments and management plans drawn up as a means to access CS funding. My question to anyone who has any experience in this is how do you put a reduction cull figure on land where numbers are so high it needs to be shoot on sight any doe in season (assuring welfare etc)? Hard to pin a number but necessary to provide. Goes without saying that exclosures/fencing will be used.

Am I right in thinking that the figure/target for a reduction cull would be the largest number that could realistically be culled in that season? I'm aware that it's not a 'quick fix' and will take many years and a landscape wide strategy but got to do our bit!

 

[baguio]

Evening all,
I have friends in the South East riddled with fallow on their farms and are going about getting impact assessments and management plans drawn up as a means to access CS funding. My question to anyone who has any experience in this is how do you put a reduction cull figure on land where numbers are so high it needs to be shoot on sight any doe in season (assuring welfare etc)? Hard to pin a number but necessary to provide. Goes without saying that exclosures/fencing will be used.

Am I right in thinking that the figure/target for a reduction cull would be the largest number that could realistically be culled in that season? I'm aware that it's not a 'quick fix' and will take many years and a landscape wide strategy but got to do our bit!

The joys of fallow. Yes, I would say that you're spot on. Probably add a night licence to the equation if you can justify it?

 

[cjm1066]

According to Rory Putman in his recent book, impact assessments have yet to be proven as a management tool.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lots of guys in the south east who are 100% trustworthy and are willing to assist in deer control all with insurance and the Qualification's needed.
Who can provide a reference . I am one of them i have had a perm over ten years but no deer on the land .

 

[Hazlett]

Does anyone know who the new FC deer officer is for the South-East? That would be a good place to start, in terms of building up a wider collective group of CS applications.

If they're in a protected landscape, there might be scope in FiPL funding for a drone survey? At least then you'll have an idea of where you're working from.

If you can make head or tail of it, it is worth looking at the deer initiative best practice population model - you can download it from their www. An Excel that will show how hard you have to work to bring the numbers down! But with a bit of juggling you can try and see what is a practical annual cull to achieve a reduction target over say 10 years.

Definitely get exclosures up asap in woodland plots, on winter crops and any pasture that's had its final grazing. That will support a night licence as well as CS applications.

 

[T.eddie]

One thing to consider as part of getting to the number, would be what the people on the ground could move I.e. shoot, gralloch, into a larder / game dealer. If it's one person who has to extract everything by hand it will be harder than having access to quad/being able to drive around the land, and if they only have a fridge as opposed to actual unit again they may only be able to shoot a couple until they are moved etc

This could also feature in the funding request I.e. chiller/ quad

 

[bottletopbill]

The good point for a hobby stalker you know who is on your land and have a means to communicate.
But a professional stalker also as the ability to process larger numbers of deer but be aware as some are not as they seem.

 

[bullet chucker]

Drones have/are being used by the officials and a count put together of more than 15000. Night Vision is' approved and estate Keepers and Stalkers with Qualifications work closely with coordinators who are responsible for access closures/public notices ect. Hampshire Game are taking/working over time.
The big estates are in teams of stalkers shooting and a team that will collect the downed beasts and get them back to the game larders.

BC.

 

[bottletopbill]

Was not trying to put any professional down just trying to show both have there own advantages .
As we all know professional stalkers have a vast cost to recover and try and earn a living,

We all agree numbers need to be controlled

 

[petlowe]

Which bit of the South East is this, there are Deer Management Schemes across most of the South Downs and High Weald managed by FC and NE.
His best path is to be in the DMS for his area, he will get the survey data, the support on the night licenses and connection to local stalkers if required.

Fallow are by nature happy to camp out where least disturbed and will circle around stalkers rather than move on in those areas.

 

[AGR]

I can see the deer management model used in Scotland coming south very soon.

 

[Jagdmatch]

I think there are only two FC deer managers in the South East as far as Hampshire. There are a couple of schemes around the Weald and some deer management groups. I have tried to do something on land I deal with near East Grinstead but the neighbours are just not interested so I cannot move the deer towards my shooters in high seats (difficult ground) or follow up on anything that is shot near a boundary. A night licence has been applied for but I doubt I will have any contact back til the new year.
You may not be keen on it but in reality the seasons need suspension for 24 months. As for the carcasses I can sell some but getting towards giving them away now.

 

[baguio]

I think there are only two FC deer managers in the South East as far as Hampshire. There are a couple of schemes around the Weald and some deer management groups. I have tried to do something on land I deal with near East Grinstead but the neighbours are just not interested so I cannot move the deer towards my shooters in high seats (difficult ground) or follow up on anything that is shot near a boundary. A night licence has been applied for but I doubt I will have any contact back til the new year.
You may not be keen on it but in reality the seasons need suspension for 24 months. As for the carcasses I can sell some but getting towards giving them away now.

Why do you think that you will have to wait until the new year for a night license?

 

[griff]

Evening all,
I have friends in the South East riddled with fallow on their farms and are going about getting impact assessments and management plans drawn up as a means to access CS funding. My question to anyone who has any experience in this is how do you put a reduction cull figure on land where numbers are so high it needs to be shoot on sight any doe in season (assuring welfare etc)? Hard to pin a number but necessary to provide. Goes without saying that exclosures/fencing will be used.

Am I right in thinking that the figure/target for a reduction cull would be the largest number that could realistically be culled in that season? I'm aware that it's not a 'quick fix' and will take many years and a landscape wide strategy but got to do our bit!

Get a drone survey done, then put forward a % reduction.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

One thing to consider as part of getting to the number, would be what the people on the ground could move I.e. shoot, gralloch, into a larder / game dealer. If it's one person who has to extract everything by hand it will be harder than having access to quad/being able to drive around the land, and if they only have a fridge as opposed to actual unit again they may only be able to shoot a couple until they are moved etc

This could also feature in the funding request I.e. chiller/ quad

All due respect but none of that has anything to do with the cull figure that should be set, the two things are entirely independent.

You don’t really need a cull number - I guarantee that down there that the more you shoot the better so just get weighed in and shoot as many as possible, get some help if you can but you won’t ever shoot too many.

 

[devon deer stalker]

If they're in a protected landscape, there might be scope in FiPL funding for a drone survey? At least then you'll have an idea of where you're working from.

But you would need to be quick, FIPL funding ends March 2025

 

[Jagdmatch]

Why do you think that you will have to wait until the new year for a night license?

I spoke to them and apparently the people who deal with applications are overwhelmed

 

[baguio]

I spoke to them and apparently the people who deal with applications are overwhelmed

That's surprising. It took me just over a month, that's all. That was this year too. I appreciate that mine was probably a higher priority due to the nature of the land but even so.

 

[T.eddie]

All due respect but none of that has anything to do with the cull figure that should be set, the two things are entirely independent.

You don’t really need a cull number - I guarantee that down there that the more you shoot the better so just get weighed in and shoot as many as possible, get some help if you can but you won’t ever shoot too many.

I'd disagree, I'd say it's very much part of it to able to say I think I can take of x amount. As you may have an over arching number for the carrying capacity of the land so need to aim to remove but that may take 3 years for example because you can only take/ handle so many a season

I agree asking for help etc to meet targets

 

[Tim.243]

I'd disagree, I'd say it's very much part of it to able to say I think I can take of x amount. As you may have an over arching number for the carrying capacity of the land so need to aim to remove but that may take 3 years for example because you can only take/ handle so many a season

I agree asking for help etc to meet targets

What experience have you of cleaning a number of deer in one session Tom as hands on is the part is what needs to be time dependant, get a couple that run or fall or worse gut shot then the whole thing falls apart. The bit on paper is fine but all these people who are going to "fix" the problem have failed in the first place, the paper works process have out stripped the shooting by a country mile. The millennial words that crop up these days are "we are monitoring it"
If they had a grip on it then it would NOT be in the situation we have now.

Granted it is not easy but too many cooks ticking boxes will spoil broth.

My single handed approach is to catch one or couple out each time I go, the only plan is to shoot them as they soon go back to a place I can't