Pine Martins in the South West. Yeh or ney?

[Heym SR20]

Didn't there used to be a bounty on Grey Squirrel tails a few years ago or is my septuagenarian memory playing tricks on me again?

Not sure about a bounty per se, but in the 80’s Veniards paid 50p per tail. This was in the days when 12 bore cartridges were £2.50 a box sort of level. As a teenager with a 12 and and an air rifle it didn’t take long to clean out all the woods on the neighbouring farm of greys and getting a good cheque from veniards for your troubles.

 

[Heym SR20]

Re @Pine Marten - he is west london based not South West England.

Re reintroductions of predators, any Apex predator, or one higher up the food chain will not stand any smaller predators in its territory, so the likes of pine martens will kill things like stoats, weasels and rats very quickly.

You see this with birds of prey. If you have eagles, buzzards etc are well down in number and you will end up with lower overall level of predation.

 

[Buchan]

It's interesting to watch these reintroductions. There's been a shift in ecological thinking in recent years from predators being a threat to populations to being regarded as an indicator of healthy biodiversity. It's complex, so complex that terms like apex predators are probably no longer important.

These animals should be there, and were removed purely to sustain game bird shooting, so reintroducing them seems reasonable.

 

[cjm1066]

Re-introducions have there place in a planned program to restore biodiversity.

However.
Relasing a past species easily makes the news and attracts funding.

Controlling an introduced species such as mink that are driving our water voles to extinction is less newsworthy and harder to fund.

Alas the "conservation" organisations including g DEFRA are driven by news, not ecological priorities.

 

[Ratel]

Not sure about a bounty per se, but in the 80’s Veniards paid 50p per tail. This was in the days when 12 bore cartridges were £2.50 a box sort of level. As a

It's interesting to watch these reintroductions. There's been a shift in ecological thinking in recent years from predators being a threat to populations to being regarded as an indicator of healthy biodiversity. It's complex, so complex that terms like apex predators are probably no longer important.

These animals should be there, and were removed purely to sustain game bird shooting, so reintroducing them seems reasonable.

teenager with a 12 and and an air rifle it didn’t take long to clean out all the woods on the neighbouring farm of greys and getting a good cheque from veniards for your troubles.

The very few grey squirrels I saw as a kid were hanging tail less on keepers gibbets. Can't remember whether the gubment paid 1/- or 2/- a tail. Not many about until they removed the bounty.
Sorry Buchan most martens were killed due to domestic poultry predation as we're polecats

 

[old keeper]

There was also a 23/6d bounty on cormorant beaks, paid by the local harbourmaster

Thar should read 2/6d!

 

[Sinistral]

Re-introducions have there place in a planned program to restore biodiversity.

However.
Relasing a past species easily makes the news and attracts funding.

Controlling an introduced species such as mink that are driving our water voles to extinction is less newsworthy and harder to fund.

Alas the "conservation" organisations including g DEFRA are driven by news, not ecological priorities.

Maybe I've misread this, but in the UK the species is American mink which are either escapees, or were released from mink farms by animal rights activists.
They're not indigenous, so it's illegal to release mink into the wild under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

 

[jall55]

It's interesting to watch these reintroductions. There's been a shift in ecological thinking in recent years from predators being a threat to populations to being regarded as an indicator of healthy biodiversity. It's complex, so complex that terms like apex predators are probably no longer important.

These animals should be there, and were removed purely to sustain game bird shooting, so reintroducing them seems reasonable.

The countryside is a different place to what it once was
Crows were seen in pairs - now flocks
To shoot a fox caused a conversation - now its expected weekly or more
Rats are now in every street and country park - in the day
Predators are too numerous and prey species cant keep handling more and more pressure - its that simple

 

[Buchan]

The very few grey squirrels I saw as a kid were hanging tail less on keepers gibbets. Can't remember whether the gubment paid 1/- or 2/- a tail. Not many about until they removed the bounty.
Sorry Buchan most martens were killed due to domestic poultry predation as we're polecats

As I typed I did wonder that.

 

[Buchan]

As I typed I did wonder that.

Been having a bit of a read up and most sources cite habitat destruction (woodlands being removed) and persecution as the reason for decline. Most sources say persecution due to shooting interests, but don't provide evidence. Several studies on PM diet show it's mostly small rodents, birds, invertebrates and fruit, but a Hungarian one did show some martens with significant poultry in the scat.
I'd make the mesh smaller for my chickens and be happy to see them around.

 

[Goingback]

It's interesting to watch these reintroductions. There's been a shift in ecological thinking in recent years from predators being a threat to populations to being regarded as an indicator of healthy biodiversity. It's complex, so complex that terms like apex predators are probably no longer important.

These animals should be there, and were removed purely to sustain game bird shooting, so reintroducing them seems reasonable.

As you stated in a later thread, removing just for game shooting wasn't the sole reason. Pine Martens love chicken,duck,geese and a multitude of other domestic stock. Many folk were glad to see that they were not around........... a cheap shot at the old keepering community

 

[shakey jake]

Id be happy to see them in cambs, plenty of greys and rabbits, loads of geese and half tame ducks.
Coukd be good buissness proofing houses would balance the loss of squirrel control.
Not sure i can see a down side

 

[Utectok]

We have them here very shy quiet animals hopefully eating grey squirrels and apparently not so many reds? Can’t say there any bother but minks are another matter…

 

[landkeeper]

Id be happy to see them in cambs, plenty of greys and rabbits, loads of geese and half tame ducks.
Coukd be good buissness proofing houses would balance the loss of squirrel control.
Not sure i can see a down side

Good luck trying to keep them out of anywhere they want to be ! Plastic wall vents are no barrier to them nor is 1"chicken wire only weldmesh deters them ,they can fit through a 2"x3" gap (I know to my cost) once in a building the cause a lot of damage

 

[nightcrow]

Totally agree - its the little guys that will get smashed to bits - why chase squirrels when ground nesting birds will be so much easier - animals like dormice - ducks and ducklings will be easy prey

Exactly, we've seen the damage mink will do, surely these are no better.

 

[maximus otter]

Could a mod change the thread title *again*, this time to the final, correct spelling?

Pine matin

Pine martin

Pine marten

maximus otter

 

[basil]

there was a pine Martin dead in the road in Somerset a few months back between Bridgwater and Glastonbury

I haven't heard of it and I live in Bridgwater.

 

[Trickyd66]

I haven't heard of it and I live in Bridgwater.

 

[basil]

Thanks for that.
Shapwick has a huge nature reserve so it would have fed well.

 

[jacre1993]

My father in law lives in shapwick - he seen it for himself