Annealing
- Thread starter scooby243
- Start date
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Tip.
If you have or can source a hex bit holder for a drill chuck with a 1/4 inch square other end they do exist pop a 10mm socket onto it then insert the brass cases head into the socket and spin it slowly using a drill on a very slow speed while putting the cases neck into the blue part of the flame and do a second counting but never go over 10 seconds.
If you have or can source a hex bit holder for a drill chuck with a 1/4 inch square other end they do exist pop a 10mm socket onto it then insert the brass cases head into the socket and spin it slowly using a drill on a very slow speed while putting the cases neck into the blue part of the flame and do a second counting but never go over 10 seconds.
jamesey
Well-Known Member
So my assumption is you don’t want to be waiting for it to burn you forcing the release more than it will be annealed before you get burnt or the sensation of it and then you quench the shell in water.
So now I’ve got 100 annealed cartridges and they are wet. Is it ok to put them in the oven to dry. We’ve got an Aga so it’s ideal for this low temp drying as it’s always on and often doing nothing but keeping the dogs warm
In the oven at 50-60 degrees centigrade for 20 mins
Those temperatures and times won't hurt the brass
Chers
Bruce
That’s exactly what I do, about 50degC.
A food dehydrator works really well too.
Polish afterwards in tumbler to get rid of any water stains.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
We were taught the annealing of sheet aluminium using soap at our technical college back in 1967, we were near LR Solihull hence the aluminium perhaps.
Tempilaq is a good indicator and if anything gives piece of mind that the base hasn’t received much heat. I use 650 degree, buy some thinner would be my advice as it goes a long way but evaporates and turns to sludge. I’ve got a bench source and just make a note of timings for each cartridge.
Yep you're right it's not particularly scientific and the key to reloading is consistency. I simply judge it by eye and don't quench the cases in water. As you've already researched by now the window between done and knackered is pretty big. Even if you went wild and trashed 100 cases learning it's still cheaper than splashing out on an AMP machine
ColinBr
Well-Known Member
How much are we talking here.
Are these things not stupid money?
There is no need to "quench" hot annealed brass in water.
Letting them cool in air or dropping them into water does not make any difference to the state of the brass once it has cooled
Brass is a single phase alloy, not like steel which is a multi phase alloy where temperature and cooling rates affect which phases and how much of those phases exist in the steel after final cooling
Cheers
Bruce
Letting them cool in air or dropping them into water does not make any difference to the state of the brass once it has cooled
Brass is a single phase alloy, not like steel which is a multi phase alloy where temperature and cooling rates affect which phases and how much of those phases exist in the steel after final cooling
Cheers
Bruce
Around £1500
MARK II DB Annealing Made Perfect - MARCH Scopes
New for 2024 is the MARK II DB (Database) from March Scopes. We have had a lot of feedback on the Mark I and Mark II annealer over the years. We have decided that now is the time to give the Mark II a new interface to make it easier and more intuitive to use. The Mark II DB comes with all the...
www.marchscopes.co.uk
A lot of what’s already been said already is good avdvice. Some I don’t agree with, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s “bad” advice.
The AMP is an amazing machine. Both simple and highly complex at the same time. That said, it’s north of £1500 and for that price you could almost just buy new brass, sell it once fired, and buy more. It would take a LONG time before your losses got to £1500, but that doesn’t make it a fabulous bit of kit.
The video mentioned about the timing “window” when annealing is, I’m guessing, that from Eric Cortina. He does a few, but I think it’s this one:
It’s a very good video, as are many of his others, and highlights the need to not panic about getting your times “spot on”. I aim for the case to glow orange at the neck for just a second, then drop out of the heat. But that’s just me
There is no need to quench. It won’t change the metallurgy in anyway, but it will mean you can handle your brass sooner than letting it air cool. But then again, you also need to dry it all over again now, so for me personally, I just let it air cool as I find it’s less faff.
Here is a great video about what’s happening during annealing -
It shows how you need to get the metal hit enough to “reset” the molecules, but that’s all. If you don’t get it hot enough, it’s ineffective. But equally, annealing a case twice makes literally no difference. The only thing you can do “wrong” is leave the case is the heat for FAR too long. Then you’ll be melting it, but it’ll take longer than you might imagine to get there.
As far as flame annealing goes there is absolutely nothing wrong with spinning the case over a hot flame. Essentially that’s all gas annealing machines do anyway. But what we are aiming for as reloaders, as was already said, is consistency. And doing it with a drill and a hand held blow torch is neither efficient or consistent, but it’s still possible, and I would suggest probably the cheapest method!
Equally you can build these machines with enough DIY skill and some components. It will cost you, but probably not a great deal. More so in time than finances.
What I WOULDN'T suggest, is holding the case with your fingers. I doubt your skin will thank you for it. The case needs to be getting to about 600-750 degrees, and since it’s about a 2.5” long piece of conducting metal, you’ll know about it! Judging how well annealed your cases are, based on the degree of melted skin, is probably not the best idea. But again - that’s just me!
For all of the above reasons, I sell the Ugly Annealer.
For £200 it’s great bang-for-buck and I suggest is a good balance between cost and consistency. Will you get better results with an AMP? Possibly, but not proveably. Is it cheaper with a drill and a blow torch? Absolutely, but probably not consistent and very much more time consuming.
Everything in reloading is a balance, and for me, the Ugly Annealer strikes a good balance all round. But that’s just me
The AMP is an amazing machine. Both simple and highly complex at the same time. That said, it’s north of £1500 and for that price you could almost just buy new brass, sell it once fired, and buy more. It would take a LONG time before your losses got to £1500, but that doesn’t make it a fabulous bit of kit.
The video mentioned about the timing “window” when annealing is, I’m guessing, that from Eric Cortina. He does a few, but I think it’s this one:
It’s a very good video, as are many of his others, and highlights the need to not panic about getting your times “spot on”. I aim for the case to glow orange at the neck for just a second, then drop out of the heat. But that’s just me
There is no need to quench. It won’t change the metallurgy in anyway, but it will mean you can handle your brass sooner than letting it air cool. But then again, you also need to dry it all over again now, so for me personally, I just let it air cool as I find it’s less faff.
Here is a great video about what’s happening during annealing -
It shows how you need to get the metal hit enough to “reset” the molecules, but that’s all. If you don’t get it hot enough, it’s ineffective. But equally, annealing a case twice makes literally no difference. The only thing you can do “wrong” is leave the case is the heat for FAR too long. Then you’ll be melting it, but it’ll take longer than you might imagine to get there.
As far as flame annealing goes there is absolutely nothing wrong with spinning the case over a hot flame. Essentially that’s all gas annealing machines do anyway. But what we are aiming for as reloaders, as was already said, is consistency. And doing it with a drill and a hand held blow torch is neither efficient or consistent, but it’s still possible, and I would suggest probably the cheapest method!
Equally you can build these machines with enough DIY skill and some components. It will cost you, but probably not a great deal. More so in time than finances.
What I WOULDN'T suggest, is holding the case with your fingers. I doubt your skin will thank you for it. The case needs to be getting to about 600-750 degrees, and since it’s about a 2.5” long piece of conducting metal, you’ll know about it! Judging how well annealed your cases are, based on the degree of melted skin, is probably not the best idea. But again - that’s just me!
For all of the above reasons, I sell the Ugly Annealer.
For £200 it’s great bang-for-buck and I suggest is a good balance between cost and consistency. Will you get better results with an AMP? Possibly, but not proveably. Is it cheaper with a drill and a blow torch? Absolutely, but probably not consistent and very much more time consuming.
Everything in reloading is a balance, and for me, the Ugly Annealer strikes a good balance all round. But that’s just me
ColinBr
Well-Known Member
That's just madness.
Unless you are doing it commercially.
Rutland lad
Well-Known Member
I see the comment above regarding the use of a drill and blowtorch.
Now I’m not a metallurgist, but in the words of Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown ‘ I’ll have a bloody good try’
I think I’ve become consistent with this method, and although I’m on the cusp of buying an Ugly Annealer I still think my drill/blowtorch way works.
Below is a photo of a few cases I’ve done recently and the ‘line’ showing the heat level is consistent. I’d like to have the metal tested to see if I’m actually making a difference to the structure of the metal, but in the short term I do get what I consider a good number of reloads out of the same case - therefore, I must be doing something right.
Now I’m not a metallurgist, but in the words of Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown ‘ I’ll have a bloody good try’
I think I’ve become consistent with this method, and although I’m on the cusp of buying an Ugly Annealer I still think my drill/blowtorch way works.
Below is a photo of a few cases I’ve done recently and the ‘line’ showing the heat level is consistent. I’d like to have the metal tested to see if I’m actually making a difference to the structure of the metal, but in the short term I do get what I consider a good number of reloads out of the same case - therefore, I must be doing something right.
Attachments
The only way to be sure that you have actually annealed the cartridge is to measure its hardness before and after annealing
That can be done with one of these W-20 Portable Webster Hardness Tester for Metal 0.6-6mm Thickness Aluminum Alloys Hardness Measuring Hardness Tester Durometer - AliExpress 1420
Cheers
Bruce
That can be done with one of these W-20 Portable Webster Hardness Tester for Metal 0.6-6mm Thickness Aluminum Alloys Hardness Measuring Hardness Tester Durometer - AliExpress 1420
Cheers
Bruce
Yep, most of them look spot on! As I said, it’s certainly possible and most of those cases are looking pretty good
Where machinery comes into it’s own is the (pretty much) guaranteed consistency is all. I hope you won’t mind me saying that one or two of the cases don’t look quite as cooked as the others (they might be, so I’m not judging!) but the machines just make it one step easier, but that comes at a financial cost. And we’re back to that balancing act
One thing I really should have added to my (far too lengthy) post above is that annealing isn’t even necessarily necessary! I know I shouldn’t say that, as it’s only harmful to business, but it isn’t
You could shoot your cases until the necks split etc, but what you do get from annealing is more consistent neck tension, and longer case life. If neither of those are particularly important, why bother.
That said, I can’t imagine many reloaders not being bothered by those factors, hence….we anneal
Similar threads
