To thermal or not to thermal…

[The Singing Stalker]

There are pros and cons to shooting with NV and thermal.
Nv, solid identification. No if's or buts.
You can see the shadow of the wire or twig that the bullet is aiming straight at.
I have been using nv for years now. The down side, you have IR, but remember we used to shine massive white lights at foxes. A dull glow is a lot less noticeable. I switch it on when the fox is looking the other way. Not an issue unless the fox is educated. But yes thermal does have an advantage.

Mist or fog will knacker an NV unit. It will reduce the thermal as well, but I have been out and could see the fox with the spotter but the nv was a whiteout.

I do have a couple of thermals, and I am using them for ratting and rabbits at the moment. I find it is a great way of learning the units capabilities before going up to foxing. I was out with a Thermtec ares 660 last weekend on the rabbits and I was very disappointed with the image. Whereas with Nv I could head shoot at 100 y@rds, the thermal image was too much of a blob for my liking. I was rather disappointed.
Might be different on foxes as they are much bigger.

But I am leaning back towards, spotting with thermal and shooting with nv.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hi Fb;
Only a tiny area where I shoot and it wasn’t many foxes in befor I sussed out that they’d sussed out the ir light and as soon as it was switched on for a shot Charlie would change direction and tactics.
Bought a thermal and it worked (Talking very few foxes here) in that my ambush position started to work again.
Didn’t go out for 6 weeks after clocks sprang forward, but when I did I took the nv and it worked.
I’m thinking new foxes coming in and not fussed, or not noticing ir glow?(Now 940).
I prefer digital but like to have the thermal for standby.
Ken.
Ps. Mine’s an Optix 100.
Google it Fb and if interested I’ll send it over and you can borrow it for a month.

Thank you K - great info and what a very kind and generous offer!
In truth I really enjoy spotting the foxes (and anything else - like the otter coming in to the Icotech recently) with the Axion which is an absolute marvel but the best bit for me is always the ability to watch the (b&w) foxes coming in through the Zulus IR - so I kinda think I would miss that excitement if I went full thermal on the scope - I ‘spose that is where the forthcoming DNT/Zulus with it’s instant conversion to IR from thermal and vice versa might appeal.
Sooo watch this space….

 

[Pellet Pinger]

For the shot, digital for me, none of this “is it or isn’t it” business you can get with thermal. 100% ID every time.

 

[JTO]

I got fed up with the glare from nearby vegetation when usung NV so I got a Thermion XM50.
Should have sold the Pulsar 870 lrf, but still got it. From a high box, I use a Photon for the pigs.

 

[Will the chippy]

I still shoot with a lamp, spot with thermal. I know, it's amazing I actually shoot anything in the dark!
I just enjoy it. Of the last 4 foxes I've shot only one ran from the lamp, it was only 40yrds away, it ran to about 180yrds and carried on it's business, it ignored the lamp that time and was duly dealt with.
I don't get the white out my mate does with his nv scope, in either fog or behind foliage.
I keep getting the itch to try and nv scope again but my lamp still works.

 

[Kevgun]

Tried em all, the Drone pro is still the best for ID and clarity

 

[hammo]

I agree with most comments on here, thermal great for spotting; but for 100% identification the nv wins for me.
Some thumping great hares on some of my ground, and when they are static at distance I need to ID with the nv.
Has saved me many a walk!
Thermal best at spotting, nv for final ID (if required) and the shot.
Also would lose too much money, selling my current set up for a top end thermal scope.
I hope you get the scope though FB, and look forward to your tales of derring-do!

 

[Nickb]

I agree with most comments on here, thermal great for spotting; but for 100% identification the nv wins for me.
Some thumping great hares on some of my ground, and when they are static at distance I need to ID with the nv.
Has saved me many a walk!
Thermal best at spotting, nv for final ID (if required) and the shot.
Also would lose too much money, selling my current set up for a top end thermal scope.
I hope you get the scope though FB, and look forward to your tales of derring-do!

Yep hares are a nuisance , some are nearly as big as foxes , as said you need to see movement.
Most foxes I shoot are called in so you get to watch their trip in first , before shooting.

 

[finnbear270]

I never struggle to ID with thermal, probably because it a top quality unit.

 

[mealiejimmy]

For the shot, digital for me, none of this “is it or isn’t it” business you can get with thermal. 100% ID every time.
View attachment 393015

That fox and those sheep would have been equally easy to identify with any half decent thermal scope as well as any half decent day/night scope

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Long drag]

I still shoot with a lamp, spot with thermal. I know, it's amazing I actually shoot anything in the dark!
I just enjoy it. Of the last 4 foxes I've shot only one ran from the lamp, it was only 40yrds away, it ran to about 180yrds and carried on it's business, it ignored the lamp that time and was duly dealt with.
I don't get the white out my mate does with his nv scope, in either fog or behind foliage.
I keep getting the itch to try and nv scope again but my lamp still works.

Have to agree, I used Thermal and NV and I'm currently using a lamp, I know people think its mad but there it is.
I use Thermal for spotting brilliant piece of kit using it 7 years now, dont believe I will ever go back to anything other than the Lamp.

 

[charlie222]

I've no experience of thermal scopes. I don't get foxes spooked by my ir which is a ludicrous lumens wraith 850nm. I'm sure my old led ir was more visible to foxes, maybe theres some milage in trying different ir torches? Alternatively, buy a lovely bottle of malt and think it over until the bottles empty. I suspect this thread might still be rolling....

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I've no experience of thermal scopes. I don't get foxes spooked by my ir which is a ludicrous lumens wraith 850nm. I'm sure my old led ir was more visible to foxes, maybe theres some milage in trying different ir torches? Alternatively, buy a lovely bottle of malt and think it over until the bottles empty. I suspect this thread might still be rolling....

There is definitely a difference between torches. Early days I used an nm800 which had a laser and it spooked the rabbits, switched to a led of the same frequency and they ignored it. No idea why.
But to be sure I tried it multiple times.

 

[Cyres]

I think thermal spotter and NV to shoot. Is the best combination. I find the issue is when something is couched down and you have not seen it move which is critical for thermal identification.
Two night's ago I was watching what I thought were 3 foxs. Alll at about 140 yds. Two moving no issues but one apparently sitting half hidden in some nettles. On thermal nigh on certain it was a fox. In the NV turned out to be badger!
Many a night I seen a head in thick stuff with thermal and on NV turned out to be a roe couched down. Similar with big moggies.
Unless your 100% sure of the target ID they leave well alone.
I been using thermal monocular for 10+ years and N V 5 and have seen a hell of alot but still learning.
There is one situation I would use a thermal scope and that would be for close range rat shooting.
D

 

[Pellet Pinger]

That fox and those sheep would have been equally easy to identify with any half decent thermal scope as well as any half decent day/night scope

Cheers

Bruce

Of course but stick another 200yds on that and a few nettles and its not so easy in an instant.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
Clearly (!) positive ID is the maxim which of course applies to shooting at any time of day or night. I have seen footage from top-end thermal scopes which beggar belief in their clarity and leave no doubt as to their species but again top-end with prices to reflect their quality. Equally some at the opposite end of the spectrum leave much to be desired; indeed some I have looked through were frankly a waste of space never mind the money they would cost.
I think my decision boils down to fitness for purpose, I have little access to deer over here rather my stalking is regular trips to Perthshire and for those the Axion and a traditional scope fits the bill very well. Conversely my fox shooting is pretty much 3 nights a week 52/7 and thus far the Axion spotter coupled with the Zulus IR makes for a deadly combination. The one minor weakness with the IR Zulus and if memory serves any other IR scope with fairly narrow FoV is target acquisition as sometimes it is easy to sweep through the fox as you look for it. Drawing from my experience with the excellent Axion2 with the usually pretty obvious heat signature this would not appear to be such an issue.
Sooo, a big thanks for all your many inputs chaps; for now I think I will stick with the Axion2 and IR Zulus combination and await developments on the rumoured enhanced thermal multispectral upgrade.

 

[kenbro]

For the shot, digital for me, none of this “is it or isn’t it” business you can get with thermal. 100% ID every time.
View attachment 393015

It does make a difference which thermal scope you buy as to the quality of the image.
Kb.

I still shoot with a lamp, spot with thermal. I know, it's amazing I actually shoot anything in the dark!
I just enjoy it. Of the last 4 foxes I've shot only one ran from the lamp, it was only 40yrds away, it ran to about 180yrds and carried on it's business, it ignored the lamp that time and was duly dealt with.
I don't get the white out my mate does with his nv scope, in either fog or behind foliage.
I keep getting the itch to try and nv scope again but my lamp still works.

major down side to lamping for me, would be being seen for miles around.
Bet there’s not many poachers use lamps these days.
Kb.

 

[Nickb]

Bet there’s not many poachers use lamps these days.
Kb.

I think most serious dog lads use thermal these days to spot.

 

[Will the chippy]

It does make a difference which thermal scope you buy as to the quality of the image.
Kb.

major down side to lamping for me, would be being seen for miles around.
Bet there’s not many poachers use lamps these days.
Kb.

There is that. But usually lamp is only on for about 5 seconds, loud bang and lamp off.

 

[finnbear270]

Of course but stick another 200yds on that and a few nettles and its not so easy in an instant.

200 Yards in a top quality thermal is a beginners shot.
As long as it has been seen to move to allow id.