Shooting the lead doe

Donkey Basher

Well-Known Member
Had a very interesting experience yesterday afternoon. I'd stalked into a seat I've got set up on a pinch point between two bits of woodland separated by a back road, as I went in I'd seen the heads of fallow over a brow about 200 yards from the ladder & after I'd settled in a found them again generally mooching about nibbling & looking very chilled. So chilled they then all lied down for about half an hour before getting up & with a purpose heading down through the wood towards me head on. At about 100 yards the lead doe stopped & turned broadside but alas a tree was in the way with arse only showing, but a step forward & her head was the other side so it was a 'bang flop' job. The rest of the group turned & ran back to where I'd first seen them before stopping to regroup - a good broadside & hilar shot resulted in a second 'bang flop" & they all took off again away & into the thicker woodland. That was the last I though I'd see of them...

However, 15-20 minutes later guess what - exactly where they'd been when I first saw them, they were back. I'm 100% sure it was the same group as they were on edge but didn't seem to have a purpose about them. After milling around for 5 mins or so they started to head along the same line they'd taken towards me before but then turned & went back the way they'd come - if it hadn't been for trees blocking the line of sight I'd probably have taken another but that's by the by. Anyway, they then went out onto the edge of the wood into the field and milled about for another 5 mins or so before heading away up the side of the field. Another 5 minutes later & they're all back again where they started. Just as I was contemplating getting out of the ladder & trying to stalk into them they decided they'd cross the field to a wood on the other side so I left them to it.

Now I've shot a lot of fallow over the years & have seen the confusion shooting the lead doe in a group does to them in open ground, especially when they're in larger herds, & have even managed to mop up the whole group during the confusion on the odd occasion. But, I've never had an experience like this when they've come back to where they were before the shooting started, not once but twice!

Just wondering whether any of the other regular fallow cullers on here have had this happen before??
 
A good tactic with fallow is to stalk in to where they have just been it's not uncommon for them to run back to where they were last safe.
Also a fawn/yearling will often come back to the area if you shot it's doe and the herd might of fallowed it back.
 
I'm pretty sure that head shooting the lead doe is what caused the confusion. Specifically the fact that after the head shot the lead doe drops on the spot without a struggle or any real movement. I've seen this before after head shots.
 
A few of us in my syndicate were chatting about this. In our woodland there are a lot of walkers, so there are a number of "safe spaces" the deer seem to prefer on busy pedestrian days. Shoot the lead doe if you can spot her, and then sit tight for 10 min. Slightly below even odds the group will come back there after bumping a walker or two.
 
Shooting the lead / matriarch of any herd species is not a clever thing to do. It is these old animals were all the knowledge of the good places resides.

Shoot these old ones, the youngsters have no clue or guidance as to where to go or how to behave. That’s when the problems start with deer go to all the places they are unwelcome.
 
Several times shot the lead doe the others running so far then coming back to her. Even had them coming back to a third one shot and managed four. They usually then clear off to a distant spot but hang around.not sure what to do, you can sometimes get a stalk on with enough cover to take another. This also has happened when it's not a bang flop and the first has run a good few yards, usually on open ground.
 
Shooting the lead / matriarch of any herd species is not a clever thing to do. It is these old animals were all the knowledge of the good places resides.

Shoot these old ones, the youngsters have no clue or guidance as to where to go or how to behave. That’s when the problems start with deer go to all the places they are unwelcome.
Yes, I was always told never take the old lead Doe/Hind. There is a theory that shooting the matriarchs is one of the reasons fallow herds scattered and spread to other areas.
As you say this leads to problems.
 
Yes, I was always told never take the old lead Doe/Hind. There is a theory that shooting the matriarchs is one of the reasons fallow herds scattered and spread to other areas.
As you say this leads to problems.
In the Essex Fallow corroder much like I am sure other places with deer who cross roads I see a number of large does also others who have been killed on the side of the road during the season when I travel to my bit which has transient fallow.

However they meet their fate then the younger ones have to fend for themselves, it wont be the first time those youngsters have followed a century's old trail with enough instinct to run off when you walk towards them.
 
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Shooting the lead / matriarch of any herd species is not a clever thing to do. It is these old animals were all the knowledge of the good places resides.

Shoot these old ones, the youngsters have no clue or guidance as to where to go or how to behave. That’s when the problems start with deer go to all the places they are unwelcome.
It depends how many you need to shoot.
 
Yes, I was always told never take the old lead Doe/Hind. There is a theory that shooting the matriarchs is one of the reasons fallow herds scattered and spread to other areas.
As you say this leads to problems.
I would rather scatter a heard of 50 and have to deal with several bunches of half a dozen. If you want to shoot 10-15 out of a big bunch you will only do that by picking out the lead doe.
 
Yes, I was always told never take the old lead Doe/Hind. There is a theory that shooting the matriarchs is one of the reasons fallow herds scattered and spread to other areas.
As you say this leads to problems.
Agreed- it was what taught by old fashioned stalkers in the Highlands and Game Wardens in Africa.

Seems that current generation have no regard for deer - just shoot as many as possible and to hell with long term consequences. I expect future generations will be reading stories about the wonderful conservationists reintroducing very rare deer back to the British Isles.

Never happen?? Well have a read of

 
Thing is at what point do you decide to take a Matriarch hind or Doe?? Plenty of deer stalkers will give you different advice or reasons? But i bet 95% of those stalkers that offer advice will never have had or experienced frequent multiple shots managing the larger herd species of deer.
My position on this subject with larger groups of deer is shoot the leading Female and then target every other mature female. Until they feck off out of sight.
If you have limited numbers to go at . Or only have access to a small piece of ground then by all means choose a different approach.
I'm not open for discussion over this posting. So argue between yourselves. :thumb:20250106_190106.webp
 
Shooting the lead / matriarch of any herd species is not a clever thing to do. It is these old animals were all the knowledge of the good places resides.

Shoot these old ones, the youngsters have no clue or guidance as to where to go or how to behave. That’s when the problems start with deer go to all the places they are unwelcome.
Always try to avoid doing it, leaving groups relatively settled 👍
 
Always try to avoid doing it, leaving groups relatively settled 👍
@Heym SR20

In England, in areas of high numbers & densities of fallow (100+/sqkm), covering large areas (20000ha+) with a sex ratio of 80% female, with fragmented landownership (& therefore many safe sanctuary sites), what would be your alternative tactics to try to contribute to the wider task of reducing the population?
 
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