6.5CM recipe: N140 + Sierra TGK Tipped GameKing 130gn
- Thread starter Jack3
- Start date
Where did you get your starting load from?
I have just looked at the viht app. The closest bullet would be the Hornady ELd-M. Starting load is 31.6gr
I don’t rate the load data provided by viht after issues with my 6mm creedmoor and terrible results. The data was input into quick load and pressure was way off even at max load. The data was anemic and far too low.
Also 2gr jumps in between loads is too much. To check for pressure signs it’s okay. But to tighten groups .3 is all you need. Sure there are other things like OAL that can be adjusted but for simple reloading pick an OAL that fits in the magazine and doesn’t jam into the lands.
I have just looked at the viht app. The closest bullet would be the Hornady ELd-M. Starting load is 31.6gr
I don’t rate the load data provided by viht after issues with my 6mm creedmoor and terrible results. The data was input into quick load and pressure was way off even at max load. The data was anemic and far too low.
Also 2gr jumps in between loads is too much. To check for pressure signs it’s okay. But to tighten groups .3 is all you need. Sure there are other things like OAL that can be adjusted but for simple reloading pick an OAL that fits in the magazine and doesn’t jam into the lands.
What 5-shot group size are you getting with factory ammo?
K
K
I don’t have a precise measurement but much tighter than the above.
It’s a Sauer 100 in 6.5CM. Seems to like most factory (copper and lead).
PEA
Well-Known Member
Can i ask why jump so much in powder weight? What was the starting load that he gave you from QL?
I just had a look at the latest data on the Viht website and it seems even more conservative than ever. 34gn max seems a bit anaemic but in any case, you are nowhere near that. It suggests starting at 30 odd but if you are not seeing any pressure signs, I would slowly go further. Do you have a chronograph? I bet you would be seeing some pretty pedestrian speeds.
I will check later because I cannot recall exactly but I think i might be at 42gn of N160 for 2700fps using the same bullet with zero pressure signs whatsoever. According to viht, max loading should be under 37grains for N160. That is a huge difference. You are using exactly the same bullet, brass and primers as me. Only difference is I am using a slower powder.
A chronograph would help alleviate concerns about pushing further I suspect but I personally think you could comfortably start at 33 grains and go up in 0.3gn increments. Watch for ejector marks on case heads and harder to open bolt than normal. If you experience one or both, do not shoot higher charge weights. I would not be surprised to see you end up well north of the mid 30's but work up carefully as ever.
The TGK is an accurate bullet in my rifle. Great on deer as well.
I will check later because I cannot recall exactly but I think i might be at 42gn of N160 for 2700fps using the same bullet with zero pressure signs whatsoever. According to viht, max loading should be under 37grains for N160. That is a huge difference. You are using exactly the same bullet, brass and primers as me. Only difference is I am using a slower powder.
A chronograph would help alleviate concerns about pushing further I suspect but I personally think you could comfortably start at 33 grains and go up in 0.3gn increments. Watch for ejector marks on case heads and harder to open bolt than normal. If you experience one or both, do not shoot higher charge weights. I would not be surprised to see you end up well north of the mid 30's but work up carefully as ever.
The TGK is an accurate bullet in my rifle. Great on deer as well.
As others have identified, the only reason you jump that much is to find velocity and I don't see that on there so I presume you aren't using a chrono?
What did your friend give you? You ladder loads for speed, you then play with seating depth and finer power ranges for grouping.
What length barrel, what target speed?
What did your friend give you? You ladder loads for speed, you then play with seating depth and finer power ranges for grouping.
What length barrel, what target speed?
Quick Load data below.
Like I say, a more experienced reloading friend suggested the loads as a starting point but maybe they are a bit on the conservative side...
I don't have a chronograph unfortunately, and I was recommended N140 in case I want to start reloading some of the other calibres I shoot but the more I read into it - maybe I should try N550 which I understand it designed for 6.5CM.
For context - I'm only really looking for an accurate hunting round that groups well, and I rarely shoot anything over 180m.
Thank you all for your help and suggestions!
Like I say, a more experienced reloading friend suggested the loads as a starting point but maybe they are a bit on the conservative side...
I don't have a chronograph unfortunately, and I was recommended N140 in case I want to start reloading some of the other calibres I shoot but the more I read into it - maybe I should try N550 which I understand it designed for 6.5CM.
For context - I'm only really looking for an accurate hunting round that groups well, and I rarely shoot anything over 180m.
Thank you all for your help and suggestions!
You don’t need to change the powder. You just need to use the powder properly.
Looking at the 32gr quickload data you have uploaded.
It’s predicting an operating pressure of 36,618. Max is 63,000. So you have room to keep adding powder.
The velocity is given as 2284fps and energy 1506 ft/lbs, you might want to check out the minimum requirements for deer.
Nothing against your friend, but if your starting out try and take advice only from powder or bullet manufacturers, I’ve dabbled with quickload and found I don’t really know enough about loading to use it properly.
If you compare your quickload data to any published using that powder with similar weighted bullets you’ll quickly see your under charged.
Somone with more knowledge will be able to clarify but my understanding is if your undercharged you will not be using enough case capacity to get consistent pressures and or velocity’s. This is showing in your target.
Viht have an excellent free app that will give you good conservative data ideal for starting out.
Your friend needs to understand Quickload - that pressure curve is a big give away, you’re nowhere near where you need to be to make the load work! As a starting point the p-max should be in the yellow band, all my good loads have been with p-max being the last of the yellow or first of the pink numbers or thereabouts. I don’t have a creedmoor or however it is spelled, but my 6.5x47 Lap works brilliantly with N140 in a range of bullets & weights from 108gn to 142gn using that powder.
Seat your bullet 10thou off the lands & give your friend the new COAL measurement then ask him to run the numbers again to give you the powder weight of the last yellow p-max figure.
Then load 5 rounds at that weight plus another five each at -0.1, -0.2, +0.1 & +0.2 grains from that weight at 10thou off the lands (25 rounds in total) & the same (another 25 rounds) at 20 thou off the lands.
Then go & shoot them off a good solid bench with proper rests & a good body position/alignment. Give your scope a handful of elevation so that the bullets do not impact your aiming mark & see what groups you get - I’d suggest a blank sheet of paper with simple black dots as an aiming mark.
Then let us know how you get on.
If you really want to get into things a bit more then measure your barrel length & get the optimum barrel time from a source on tinterweb then get your friend to find a powder weight that hits that rather than just going for last yellow p-max figure. Then do the ladder test with 25 rounds at 10 & 20 thou as above.
Seat your bullet 10thou off the lands & give your friend the new COAL measurement then ask him to run the numbers again to give you the powder weight of the last yellow p-max figure.
Then load 5 rounds at that weight plus another five each at -0.1, -0.2, +0.1 & +0.2 grains from that weight at 10thou off the lands (25 rounds in total) & the same (another 25 rounds) at 20 thou off the lands.
Then go & shoot them off a good solid bench with proper rests & a good body position/alignment. Give your scope a handful of elevation so that the bullets do not impact your aiming mark & see what groups you get - I’d suggest a blank sheet of paper with simple black dots as an aiming mark.
Then let us know how you get on.
If you really want to get into things a bit more then measure your barrel length & get the optimum barrel time from a source on tinterweb then get your friend to find a powder weight that hits that rather than just going for last yellow p-max figure. Then do the ladder test with 25 rounds at 10 & 20 thou as above.
The problem with the load data from the various manufacturers, is that it has to be ultra conservative, 1) because they don't want to be sued, and 2) because they have zero information about the users rifle, case capacity. They generally use 24"-26" for barrel length, where today, 20"-22" is much more common. Case capacity can vary by as much as 10% between manufacturers, so they have to cover themselves for that too.
I use QL, and find it straight forward, and safe to use, so long as you use common sense, but it does take time using it, to get good, consistent results.
You’re wasting your time with N140. Get a tub of N555 and start again.
DG
To get good velocity, N555 is a bit slow, N550 would be better, or RS 60, or RS62.
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
3) there's always lot variance in burn speed of certain type of powder
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