Government responds to 2023 firearms licensing consultation

[Conor O'Gorman]

The government has today responded to the 2023 firearms licensing consultation which received 91,385 responses.

Click the link below to read the government's response in full

Recommended changes to firearms licensing: government response (accessible)

www.gov.uk

BASC has criticised the government’s decision to grant police automatic powers of entry into the homes of firearm certificate holders as unnecessary and an erosion of civil liberties. The police already have powers of entry to prevent crime and if life is in danger. They can also get a warrant from a magistrate and they can revoke a person’s shotgun or firearm certificate, making their possession of guns illegal. This power of entry was opposed by 80.7 per cent of respondents to the consultation.

Also announced was the government’s intention to launch a new consultation later this year on whether controls on higher-powered firearm should be applied to lower powered shotguns. The government has refused to make the placing of a marker on the medical notes of certificate holders mandatory for general practitioners; despite 83 per cent of respondents supporting this proposal.

Click the link below for more reaction from BASC

Government’s decision unnecessary and an erosion of civil liberties, says BASC

BASC has strongly condemned the government’s decision to grant police automatic powers of entry into firearms certificate holders' homes.

basc.org.uk

 

[Apthorpe]

With respect to the business of giving police automatic rights of entry without a warrant:
The case for introducing this is that the delays caused by applying for and getting a warrant may be dangerous. The case against doing so is that it infringes civil liberties, is authoritarian and doesn't protect the legitimate interest of the gun owner.
Surely the problem can be resolved by making the police apply for a warrant within a week of the act, so that the justification is still properly examined and the rights of the individual respected, while also permitting the police to act immediately? Should the police not have proper justification, then the firearms to be returned without delay.

 

[cjm1066]

Is this an opportunity?

“The government therefore intends to issue a new consultation on improving and aligning the controls on shotguns with other firearms”.

This is an opportunity to analysis the evidence, theft/suicides/murders etc committed with legally held guns. We need to ascertain if the licensing of:

• SGC - Individuals as undertaken for shotguns who can buy and sell guns at will
• FAC - firearms which are licensed on a gun by gun basis

Which produces the best outcome?

The Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law categories the use of rifles for quarry shooting as:

• Vermin & ground game and other small quarry
• Fox and other medium quarry
• Deer and other large quarry
• Dangerous Game

If we license by categories such as “Deer and other large quarry” rifles, does it matter to any one if you swap a 243 Tikka for a 6.5 Blaser? That could be done online at the RFD and keep you within the number your FAC authorises.

PS, I appreciate that 243 v 6.5 and Blaser v Tikka are fascinating topics but can we discuss them on another thread?

PPS its clear where effort is needed Keyham Inquest

 

[63]

I’ve just skim read the whole response. I must admit the general theme seems to be that firearms licensing has been a bit of a cake and arse party. Things like

Having standardised training

Having a list of things to ask referees

Expecting referees to, erm, know about the applicant….

All feel like pretty basic aspects of providing a competent service

 

[Pete_Cambs]

The consultation around shotguns being made section 1 really worries me, it would in essence kill the sport whether it be clays or game for lots of people with the “toffs” likely to be the only ones left which is ironic given that’s who socialists hate most.

I can see them coming for 2+1 semi’s and pumps as a minimum here and if we are really unlucky it’s everything. If they impose restrictions on shotgun ammo purchase and storage it will undoubtably push the prices up and make it impossible for most to be able to store at home! I’ve just bought 2k Hull pro ones for clays this year as a yes to beat the planned price rise! Factor in the missus cartridges and my game / wildfowl / pigeon cartridges and I’d need a bank vault to store them in

Feels like the aim is to make it so prohibitively expensive, time consuming and bureaucratic to own any gun at all that most will just give up.

 

[trickie]

Is this an opportunity?

“The government therefore intends to issue a new consultation on improving and aligning the controls on shotguns with other firearms”.

This is an opportunity to analysis the evidence, theft/suicides/murders etc committed with legally held guns. We need to ascertain if the licensing of:

• SGC - Individuals as undertaken for shotguns who can buy and sell guns at will
• FAC - firearms which are licensed on a gun by gun basis

Which produces the best outcome?

The Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law categories the use of rifles for quarry shooting as:

• Vermin & ground game and other small quarry
• Fox and other medium quarry
• Deer and other large quarry
• Dangerous Game

If we license by categories such as “Deer and other large quarry” rifles, does it matter to any one if you swap a 243 Tikka for a 6.5 Blaser? That could be done online at the RFD and keep you within the number your FAC authorises.

PS, I appreciate that 243 v 6.5 and Blaser v Tikka are fascinating topics but can we discuss them on another thread?

PPS its clear where effort is needed Keyham Inquest

I totally agree with your comments on categories and swopping out. Sadly I feel that unless there was a secure digital system in place for the RFD as well as Firearms departments, this won’t happen.
Despite that, it is reasonable that if you hold a FAC for a centrefire rifle for Deer, Foxes or target shooting then a 1 to 1 swop should not be the obstacle that it currents. Reducing The Firearms dept time, energy and costs by a reasonable level.

 

[63]

Sadly I’d bet that the most likely outcome is that shotguns will end up being individuated in the same way that firearms are.

 

[enfieldspares]

The problem is, likely, that some in authority fear some have used the more open system of the SGC to effectively become "part time dealers in shotguns".

 

[Elshad]

What on earth is a "higher-powered firearm"?

Is a .22 bolt action "higher power" than a shotgun?

 

[Elshad]

However, on a positive note perhaps, if they are picking up on consultations launched by the last government this might mean they finally get round to implementing the sound moderator deregulation

 

[Benelli m2]

So if shotguns were put fac that will destroy half the shooting community there's more sgc than fac holders so if someone's got say 3years left on a sgc then the government put them on fac they will have to hand them in because no way will the get a grant for a fac there will probably be a 10 year wait
The labour bastards want your

 

[shoppe]

I think they are possibly changing the laws regarding shotguns is because of the keyham killings.
Once again law abiding shooters are getting the kickback for failings of the " system ".
We all know he should not have got the shotgun handed back to him.
But due to various failings of the " authority's" we are going to get shafted AGAIN.
After it was clear how the " authority's " had failed , I wrote a letter to BASC.
In the letter, I suggested they tell the general public what actually happened as why the public were failed on this occasion.
I did not get a reply from BASC.
Shoppe

 

[Benelli m2]

So is all this just a debate at the moment

 

[Foxyboy43]

Brace yourselves chaps.
Everything in NI above peashooters (including airguns) has been on a single FAC since before I got my first air rifle - 56 years ago. An air pistol will only be granted (for target shooting) to members of approved clubs. Even worse the use of said “firearm” is also to approved ranges so you can’t even practice at your beloved tin cans in your back garden!
Coming to a town near you….

 

[webley701]

Government dictionary definition of the word ‘Consultation’ = “we’ve ticked that box - now we’ll do what we want”.

 

[timbrayford]

So in principle what us the difference between S1 & S2 controls?
S.1 Introduced in the immediate aftermath of WW1 to prevent an armed uprising against George V after similar uprisings against cousins Billy & Nicky.
Hugely bureaucratic , expensive to administer , outdated and in terms of legally held firearms misuse no more effective than S2
S.2 Introduced to prevent armed crime in the aftermath of the abolition of the death penalty.
Less bureaucratic, cheaper and simpler to administer and in terms of legally held firearms misuse just as effective as S1
Shortcomings of both:- Inadequate background checks and poorly trained* or corrupt** FLD staff have allowed persons unsuited to firearms ownership being granted FAC/SGC
*Hungerford, Plymouth etc
**Dunblane
Its also notable that the nation with the second highest legally held gun ownership per head of population, has a similar rural culture to our own and apparently no gun crime, the Falkland Islands. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt there?

 

[Utectok]

Labour could tighten shotgun rules in another red rag to farmers — The Times and The Sunday Times

Farmers fear they could be stopped from keeping shotguns at home under government recommendations to overhaul firearms law. Ministers will consult on tighter control of shotguns after the last Conservative administration exempted them from potential changes. Countryside campaigners said the...

apple.news

 

[Greenmist]

Drug dealer - Warrant required before entry
Human trafficker - Warrant required before entry
Meth lab - Warrant required before entry
Law abiding firearms owner - Don't even take your shoes off when you waltz in

What do we expect, we bow to every restriction made against us, if any other community were victimised and discriminated against the same as us there would be an enquiry.
Then again, the response figures is around 14% and they probably weren't all pro shooting, pathetic really

 

[Benelli m2]

Of the subject but did you hear about that vile woman the home office tried to deport
She joined a terror organisation to help her case to stay in Britain and it worked

 

[andyk]

Drug dealer - Warrant required before entry
Human trafficker - Warrant required before entry
Meth lab - Warrant required before entry
Law abiding firearms owner - Don't even take your shoes off when you waltz in

That’s why this is so out of order, there will be so many situations where harm could be prevented but the Police are powerless to act because they don’t have a right of entry. That’s (correctly) seen as the price we pay for not being entirely subjugated to the whims of the state.

For some reason though, the moment you want to own a firearm, somehow that puts you in a special category that even the worst criminals are protected from.